The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

This is not a growth hack. It is not going to go viral on a Twitter thread. But I genuinely believe it is one of the highest leverage things you can do for your brand right now, and most founders never do it properly because it is not exciting.

Here is what a mentor told me years ago that I keep coming back to: a dollar saved is a dollar earned. And depending on your margins, that dollar saved is probably worth $1.30 or $1.40 on the bottom line.

In this episode, I walk you through a full line by line expense audit covering every major cost area in a typical e-commerce business, the same process we have run at Foundr that has saved us tens of thousands of dollars a month.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why the average growing Shopify store is paying for 15 to 30 apps but actively using only eight of them, and how to fix that fast

How to negotiate your SaaS tools, 3PL rates, merchant fees, and supplier costs in ways most founders never think to try

Why agency retainers are one of the most expensive line items you can cut, and what to build in-house instead

How to use AI and Claude Code to replace tools and creative spend that is quietly draining your budget every month

The Meta ads Net 30 arrangement that can make a significant difference to your cash flow if you are spending at scale

Why businesses waste an average of 26% of their marketing budget on campaigns that are not performing, and where to redirect it

If your margins are tighter than they should be or you have not done a proper audit in the last six months, this episode will show you exactly where to look and what to do about it.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at nathan@foundr.com — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

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HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Jay Klein lost $2 million on a gum nobody wanted. He sold the remaining
stock to a pig feed company for $13,000 - then used every cent of it to
launch Pur. Sixteen years later, Pur is the fastest-growing gum in North
America, the #1 selling gum on Amazon, sells in over 50 countries, and
does over $250 million in retail sales annually. All bootstrapped. All
founder-owned. And built in a $20 billion industry controlled by fewer
than ten giants who still haven't managed to take him out.

In this interview, the founder of The Pur Company breaks down how he
discovered his winning product insight for free at 30,000 feet, why he
deliberately ignored Walmart and Tesco to win thousands of tiny
independent stores first, and how he absorbed a brutal 39% tariff -
without raising a dollar or passing a cent to his customers - and still
grew 30% that year.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• How losing $2 million on his first gum brand rewired everything - and
why getting back to zero was his greatest victory
• The airplane focus group: how he discovered the aspartame insight for
free that became the entire Pur thesis
• Why he targeted independent health food stores instead of big
retailers - and the "major league attitude in a minor league setting"
strategy behind it
• How he convinced his manufacturer to extend 30-day credit on a $250K
first order with only $13K to his name
• The "assemble the crumbs to make the cookie" philosophy: why Pur has
never been built on a single big retail relationship
• How duty free airports became his global expansion engine - and why he
treated them like his version of New York City
• Why he turned down the Dragon's Den deal even after it went through -
and what he got out of it anyway
• The 39% Swiss tariff crisis: how he absorbed the full hit rather than
disrupt his retail relationships - and why scale actually amplified the
problem instead of solving it
• Why he keeps the lowest possible balance in his checking account on
purpose - and what it does for his hunger as a founder
• What he looks for now as a Dragon's Den investor: the two things that
matter before any unit economics conversation

If you're building a CPG or retail brand, trying to figure out how to
grow without giving away equity, or looking for the real story behind
what bootstrapped category-building looks like across 16 years and 50
countries, this conversation will fundamentally change how you think
about distribution, resilience, and what it means to outwork the
competition one crumb at a time.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
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HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH JAY KLEIN
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/iamjayklein/
LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/jay-klein-92b93319/
Website → https://thepurcompany.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Dr. Angela Casey spent nearly 15 years treating skin cancer before she had her business idea. She didn't come from entrepreneurship - she came from molecular biology, medical school, residency, and a clinical practice. When the idea hit her, it was so obvious she couldn't believe nobody had done it properly. She searched every major retailer - Ulta, Sephora, Target, Walmart, Macy's - and found nothing worth recommending to her own three daughters. A Macy's assistant tried to sell her 12-year-old an anti-aging eye cream. Bright Girl was the answer to that gap, and it cost her $350,000 and three years to bring it to life.

In this episode, Angela gets completely honest about what it takes to launch a product the right way from scratch - the hundreds of surveys, the thousands of patient conversations, the Covid shipping crisis that sent her costs up six times overnight, and what nearly $120,000 in packaging sitting in a warehouse actually feels like when you're still flying the plane as you build it.

What you'll learn in this interview:

How Angela validated Bright Girl before spending a cent - surveying hundreds of people on SurveyMonkey, questioning thousands of patients over two years, and physically visiting every major beauty retailer to confirm the gap was real

Why she interviewed dozens of cosmetic chemist teams around the world before finding the right fit - and how three years of clinical research meant she only needed three rounds of formula revisions

The real cost of a custom, premium launch: $50K for the first filled run, $120K when you include the 36,000 empty bottles in reserve, and $350K all in when you add branding and design

What it felt like to order 40,000 bottles and jars across four SKUs in 2020 - just as Covid hit and shipping costs multiplied by six

Why she spent the first year of DTC sales proving market fit before ever approaching dermatology practices as a distribution channel - and why that sequencing mattered

The exact moment she knew the product had real credibility: when other dermatologists - notoriously skeptical of new skincare brands - started recommending Bright Girl not just to patients but for their own children

How selling through dermatology practices built the trust that made mass retail possible - and the retailers Bright Girl is now stocked in

Why Amazon, launched just over a year ago, is now growing at 10-20% month over month - and how TikTok Shop became an unpredictable but consistent additional channel

The email marketing lesson from her Founder mentor that unlocked 15-20% of website revenue from a channel she had barely touched

What two full-time jobs actually looks like - five days a week in clinical practice, seven days a week on Bright Girl - and the non-negotiable routines that hold it together

If you're early in your journey and wondering whether your idea is good enough to back with serious money and serious time - Angela's story is a masterclass in what deep validation actually looks like before you commit. She still wants more. She's her own harshest critic. But $40K a month on a brand she built from scratch with zero business experience, while running a full medical practice, is not nothing.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH BY DR ANGELA CASEY
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/brightgirlbeauty/
Angela's Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/angelacaseymd/
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://brightgirl.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

After interviewing over 700 founders, including more than 100 billionaires, I kept noticing something that never made it onto the podcast. When the recording stopped and I asked privately how they were really doing, so many described the same thing. The weight of carrying something you cannot put down and cannot hand to anyone else.

Here is the truth I wish someone had told me earlier: entrepreneurs are five and a half times more likely to experience loneliness than the general population. And the founders who are struggling the most are almost always the last ones to say anything about it.

In this episode, I share things I have never talked about publicly before, including losing half a million dollars in a single month, showing up for my team the next morning like nothing happened, and what losing my best friend Aaron taught me about what actually matters on this journey.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why founder loneliness is not about being physically alone, and why that distinction makes it so much harder to recognise and address

The moment that almost broke me at Foundr, and what it actually felt like to carry it without anyone to call

Why the skill of showing up calm and projecting confidence eventually becomes a wall that keeps out the people who could actually help

What Scooter Braun, Steve Huffman, and the co-founder of Airbnb all said privately about whether it ever feels like enough

Why the wins can feel just as isolating as the hard moments, and what to do about that

The one thing that has made the biggest difference: surrounding yourself with founders who are a few steps ahead of where you are right now

If you have been carrying something heavy lately and telling everyone it is fine, this episode is for you. The gap between what you are actually feeling and what you let anyone see will keep growing unless you actively close it.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at nathan@foundr.com — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

→ Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

→ Already have a store? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Jennifer Fisher started with $5,000 and a dog tag she sketched on a
piece of paper for her son - a son she almost never had, after
chemotherapy, failed IVF, and years of surrogacy attempts. She knocked
on doors on 47th Street, got Uma Thurman to wear her piece on a Glamour
cover, and bootstrapped the brand for 20 years without taking a single
dollar from investors. Now Jennifer Fisher Jewelry is on track for nine
figures, growing 50% year over year, and targeting 200-300% growth by
2028 - with a $20 jar of salt as her secret customer acquisition weapon.

In this interview, Jennifer breaks down the Instagram pivot in 2017 that
tripled sales overnight, how 6% of salt buyers convert to jewelry
customers, and the manufacturing mistake she made after Covid that
nearly broke the entire business.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• How a dog tag she sketched for her son became Hollywood's go-to
jewelry brand - starting with Uma Thurman on a Glamour cover
• Why she launched DTC before Shopify existed - and what running a
jewelry brand on Magento in 2005 actually looked like
• The 2017 Instagram pivot: how showing her real life - cooking, dogs,
kids - tripled sales overnight
• How a $20 jar of salt she made in her kitchen became a full customer
acquisition funnel - with 6% of buyers converting to jewelry
• Why founder-led creative outconverts every influencer she's ever
worked with - and why she still does it all herself
• The manufacturing mistake that nearly broke her: why not moving
production out of NYC fast enough after Covid was her biggest business
regret
• How a JV with Centric Brands unlocked the operations, manufacturing
scale, and systems she couldn't build alone in 20 years
• Managing 4,000 SKUs (cut from 10,000) - and the inventory planning
challenge that still costs her sales every season
• Why she's launching men's jewelry, silver, sunglasses, and home as
category expansions - and how she decides what's actually her
• What surviving chemo, years of IVF, and the loss of her father taught
her about handling fear in business

If you're building a DTC fashion or lifestyle brand, trying to figure
out how founder-led content and creative actually works at scale, or
just want 20 years of hard-won bootstrap lessons from someone who built
nine figures without ever raising a round, this conversation will
fundamentally change how you think about brand building, customer
acquisition, and what it means to show up as yourself.

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WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
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→ Already have a store? Apply here →
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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH JENNIFER FISHER
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/jenniferfisher/
Website → https://jenniferfisher.com/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠