It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

In World Cup final week, we just had to ask Jonathan and Rob to decide on the best World Cup finals of all time - and they certainly delivered.

From Uruguay in 1930 to Qatar in 2022, there's no better way to whet your appetite for Sunday evening than by taking a trip down memory lane with the guys.

From the drama of that very first final in 1930, to the political tension and selection intrigue of Hungary’s defeat to Italy in 1938, they trace how the World Cup final quickly became a stage for far more than just football.

Along the way they revisit the heartbreak of the 1950 Maracanazo, the tactical and cultural significance of West Germany’s win over the Netherlands in 1974, and the extraordinary scale of the 1954 Miracle of Bern, when Hungary’s great side were denied by West Germany. They also reflect on the modern classic of Argentina v France in 2022.

Will we have another classic on our hands in 2026?

00:00 Uruguay 4–2 Argentina (1930)
17:45 West Germany 2–1 Netherlands (1974)
30:15 Uruguay 2–1 Brazil (1950)
40:55 Italy 4–2 Hungary (1938)
47:50 Argentina 3–3 France (2022)
54:55 West Germany 3–2 Hungary (1954)
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their favourite World Cup quarterfinals while previewing the upcoming last-eight: Portugal’s 5–3 comeback against North Korea at Goodison Park in 1966, highlighting Eusébio’s peak display, disputed refereeing, and the enduring Middlesbrough bond with the North Korean team; Germany–Argentina in 2006 as a pivotal step in Klinsmann’s cultural and tactical reset with Löw, Lehmann’s sock note in the shootout, and debate over Pekerman’s substitutions; and Argentina–Netherlands in 2022, remembered amid Grant Wahl’s death, for Messi’s pass, a record 18 yellows, a late Weghorst equaliser from a worked free kick, and a combustible shootout and aftermath. Wilson also covers Italy–Spain in 1934 as Mussolini’s World Cup’s key test and Draper adds Italy–Brazil 1982 and France–Brazil 1986 as defining classics.

00:00 Quarterfinal Classics Setup
00:47 Portugal vs North Korea 1966
03:40 Goodison Shock and Comeback
08:32 Eusebio Takes Over
10:10 Legacy and Middlesbrough Bond
16:19 Germany vs Argentina 2006
17:20 Klinsmann Revolution Explained
23:27 Match Drama and Lehmann Note
26:11 Argentina vs Netherlands 2022
30:33 Battle of Lusail Chaos
34:48 Penalties And Tragedy
36:04 Mussolini World Cup Clash
41:41 Replay And Brutality
42:58 England Debate Sunderland Joke
44:43 Rossi Sinks Brazil 1982
49:50 Romance Dies Guardiola Inspired
51:57 France Brazil 1986 Classic
57:43 Shootout Controversy Carlos Story
01:00:31 Legacy And Wrap Up

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Throughout the World Cup Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are recording weekly live Q&As, exclusively for our Patreon subscribers.

This week, all eyes were on England's win over DR Congo, sparking a debate on their reliance on Harry Kane. A worry, or a strength? There's a look at Marcelo Bielsa's Uruguay, a debate on what's happened to Germany, and so much more in this week's World Cup mailbag.

Want in? Then all you need to do is head over to www.patreon.com/ItWas and sign up for £4.99 a month. That'll get you access to Rob and Jonathan's live Q&As and a whole host of bonus content, including:

The World Cup Collection - dissecting every tournament since 1930.
Retro Magazine Collection - flicking through the archives of classic football culture.
Lots of bonus, one-off IWWIW specials.
Plus, you'll become part of our growing IWWIW community on Patreon.

Sign up today to hear the full episode - and we'll see you on Patreon. Thanks for listening!

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To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes.

Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson conclude their four-part series on England’s 1966 World Cup win, picking up from the semi-final against Portugal and Eusébio, where Alf Ramsey sticks with Geoff Hurst over the media-favoured Jimmy Greaves and England’s wingless 4-1-3-2 thrives, with Bobby Charlton scoring twice and Jack Charlton’s handball leading to a late penalty. They then set up the final against West Germany, including Ramsey’s instruction for Charlton to sit deeper and nullify Franz Beckenbauer, before revisiting a disjointed 4–2 match shaped by England’s direct play, West Germany’s controversial equaliser, Hurst’s debated goal off the bar, and his hat-trick. The episode also explores Ramsey’s vindication, England’s fitness and planning, and the broader cultural context of Swinging London, post-imperial Britain, and the night of celebrations after victory.

00:00 Doubting Ramsey
00:23 Series Setup
01:04 Semifinal Stakes
02:07 Bobby Charlton Anxiety
05:13 Greaves Or Hurst
07:12 Wingless Wonders Win
08:57 Charlton Double
11:44 Penalty Scare
12:50 Charlton Family Duty
14:53 1966 Life Off Pitch
17:47 Cinema And Trauma
20:13 Final Plan Mark Beckenbauer
22:20 Final Rewatch Context
24:03 Targeting Tilkowski
25:07 Final Goals Breakdown
26:26 German Equaliser Debate
28:13 Ramsey Team Talk Myth
29:26 Ramsey Mind Games
30:08 Fitness Wins Extra Time
30:34 Was It Over The Line
32:52 Pitch Invaders Fourth Goal
33:48 Hurst Becomes Immortal
35:01 Planning Versus Flair
36:52 Ramsey Vindicated
40:19 War Memory And Germany
43:05 Swinging London Soundtrack
45:19 Post Imperial Cool Britannia
50:48 Football Enters Mainstream
54:07 Night Of Celebration
57:05 Legacy And Farewell
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To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes.

Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue their series on how England won the 1966 World Cup by focusing on the quarter-final against Argentina, presented as the tournament’s key and most controversial test. They explain Alf Ramsey’s tactical preparation, including hiding his 4-1-3-2 “wingless” system and replacing the injured Jimmy Greaves with the more aerially suited Geoff Hurst. The episode traces Ramsey’s lessons from England’s 1964 South American trip, where Argentina’s pragmatic defensive approach and man-marking shaped his thinking, then sets the fraught 1966 backdrop: referee paranoia, Argentina’s internal chaos and recent coup, and a Wembley training dispute caused by greyhound racing. They dissect Antonio Rattín’s baffling dismissal amid language barriers and unclear bookings, the ugly atmosphere, and England’s 1–0 win through Hurst, before covering the aftermath, including Ramsey’s “animals” remark, protests, bans, fines, and Argentina’s defiant homecoming.

00:00 Setting Up England Argentina
01:23 Ramsey Hides Wingless Wonders
03:16 Hurst Replaces Greaves
05:11 Mundialito Lessons In Brazil
09:47 Argentina Pragmatism And Press Reaction
15:43 Referee Paranoia And FIFA Politics
19:14 Argentina Chaos Before Wembley
22:40 Greyhound Racing And Pre Match Tension
26:32 Match Begins And Footage Limits
29:37 Rattin Booking Sparks Flashpoint
33:57 Booking Confusion Builds
35:06 Rattin Sent Off Mystery
38:40 Interpreter Myth Explained
41:53 Aero Bars and Union Jack
45:25 Who Was Actually Booked
46:06 Press Fury and Fix Claims
51:56 Ten Men Battle On
56:01 England Finally Break Through
57:18 Animals Comment Fallout
01:03:17 Bans Fines and Aftermath
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