The Way Out Is In

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to explore the significance and offerings of the Plum Village community – a sanctuary of peace, healing, and mindfulness, providing a stark contrast to the fast-paced, consumer-driven world outside.

The three speakers further discuss the importance of a physical environment for spiritual practice, a space where individuals can reconnect with their true selves; the value of community living, where monastics share a collective career and work towards the flourishing of the community rather than individual success; the relevance of the five mindfulness trainings, which serve as ethical guidelines for personal and societal transformation; and much more.

The conversation also touches upon the need for support to maintain and expand the Plum Village facilities, the importance of generosity, and the impact of supporting engaged monastic communities.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Bodhisattva Vow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhisattva_vow

The Five Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-5-mindfulness-trainings

The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings

Es Devlin
https://esdevlin.com/

Rebecca Solnit
https://www.rebeccasolnit.net/

The Way Out Is In: Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67

The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95

Quotes

“Plum Village emerged from our teacher’s vision for how the world could look and feel different from mainstream society. From the beginning, Plum Village has always been a community of resistance. We could even call it a community of resilience, a very physical environment that is holding different values from mainstream consciousness. And the values in mainstream consciousness we can all recognize. It might be unbridled capitalism, craving, consumerism, violence, excess of different kinds that all of us might see in our immediate lives and around us and in the economic and labor systems that we’re a part of. The vision for Plum Village was to say, what if we created a physical environment that modeled entirely different values? And in embodying those values, that is the resistance. So for example, to embody more peace, harmony, collectiveness, community rather than individualism.”

“We need to reclaim our sovereignty from the machines of our creation.”

“Plum Village is holding this environment of peace and healing and freedom from the rat race, freedom from this world of technological overwhelm.”

“When we come to a retreat, we are being invited into a space of sharing our generosity in presence. We’re not sitting for ourselves. We’re sitting for the collective. When we are taking care of our emotions, we’re also taking care of the emotions of the collective, because the individual and the collective, we start to see the interbeing of it, the interconnectedness of it.”

“We organize our life in such a way that compassion, mindfulness, patience, inclusiveness are literally what we’re cultivating every day. And we’re not perfect, but this is our work in progress and it’s quite noble and even though we struggle so much, we feel in our bones that we’re doing this work every day. And it allows me to have some faith also in the future as we enter this period of disruption for society, for the climate, for agriculture, for nature, to be able to cooperate, to live cooperatively, to share resources, to moderate and temper our needs. These are such important human practices. The kind of qualities we’re holding here – compassion, mindfulness – are a treasure trove for future generations. These are exactly the kind of values that we want to trust will still be there in decades and centuries to come.”

“In each hamlet we have 50, 60 monastics living together, everyone cultivating non-violence in our speech, in our thinking, in our way of being, in our way of washing a bowl, in our way of brushing our teeth, in our ways of being with the mosquitoes. We’re living as an example of non-violence in the world. And then being able to lift that up into our engagement with everyone who comes to us. It may sound like we’re describing a bubble. It’s really unrealistic, but because we are living in a constant relationship with the thousands of people that come and spend time with us every year, another way you could describe us is as being like the river bank and the river flows through us. We’re a sort of gentle river bank that caresses the water for a little bit before it moves on back into the world. And so people have a chance to taste these energies that we’re generating as a collective here.”

“The only way that we are gonna save ourselves from the collapse of civilization is if there’s a collective awakening. Individual awakening is not enough.”

“We’re not gonna sort everything out in this lifetime, but what we can offer is for the next generation to have more tools, more practices, more understanding, more care, more compassion, so that they can carry this path forward into the future.”

“Thay has really expanded this home – it’s not just for the monks and nuns. The monastery is also open to the lay community for the lay people to come in and taste true peace.”

“When you come to Plum Village for seven days and you don’t drive a vehicle, that’s already an impact. When you’re vegetarian for seven days, that’s impact. When you are not expressing anger for seven days, that’s impact. When you are listening to yourself and healing some blockage that has been waiting for you to look at and embrace, that is impact. That’s healing. That is already work for your ancestors, work for society. And so the journey of a monastery, or we can call it a practice center, is important because it is also a place where we know we can put our masks down. It can become a great equalizer. Everyone here, we’re human beings. It doesn’t matter what titles we’re holding in the world. Here, in the monastery, there’s a power to the monastic’s presence.”

“It is very clear from the teachings of Thay and the teachings of the Buddha and our own moral compass, that if we don’t take care of our suffering, our loneliness, our violence, our hatred, naming it as it is and just saying like, ‘Okay, I’m co-responsible, and it is my responsibility to also transform this’, we’re not gonna change the system.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This is our third live recording of the podcast made in London, England, in July, 2026, before a sold-out audience. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined on stage by Zen Buddhist nun Sister True Dedication to explore the idea that the answers to life’s issues are often found within ourselves, rather than externally, and that we are already the person we want to become.

The discussion includes reflections on the challenges of recognizing one’s own worth and the societal pressures that contribute to feelings of inadequacy; how mindfulness, presence, and community are essential in cultivating self-acceptance and personal transformation; the role of kindness in daily life; the power of the present moment in fostering personal and collective change; practicing self-compassion; and much more.

The conversation concludes with questions from the audience answered by the three speakers.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

Plum Village UK:
https://plumvillage.uk/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Sister True Dedication
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sister-hien-nghiem

Koan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koan

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Meredith Monk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_Monk

The Way Out Is In: ‘Stepping into Freedom – Live Recording with Q&A Session (Episode #67)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/stepping-into-freedom-live-recording-with-qa-session-episode-67

The Way Out Is In: ‘Cultivating Joy and Togetherness in the Midst of Hardship (Episode #95)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/cultivating-joy-and-togetherness-in-the-midst-of-hardship-episode-95

Quotes

“Given everything that’s happening in the world, the person I’d like to become is this impossible person – a person who can find an answer to heal and stop all of the suffering, all of the injustice, all of the violence. We know that the pain and discomfort we feel in ourselves is not only a personal, individual discomfort; we’re feeling the pain of the world, and that’s reflected in our bodies and in our feelings. And so, when we can’t accept ourselves, or think we’re not enough, it’s also because we’re not enough in the face of all of this. How could we be?”

“All the suffering of the world is reflected in us in a really concrete way: we watch something on a screen and we have a bodily response. We feel the anxiety, we feel the tension. We felt the heat in the heat wave last week. And that’s doing something to us at an emotional level; a kind of existential fear is triggered. So that suffering is really visceral in us. But what’s really interesting is that there’s also the other side of this: if the suffering of the world is reflected in our bodies and in our minds, the beauty of the word is also there in us.”

“I understand how hard it is to not feel enough in the face of what I would like to do, or need to do, to respond to the world. But, at the same time, all of the goodness of the world is refracted and expressed in unique ways in each one of us. For me, that’s the key to unlocking the door to accepting myself.”

“Coming home to oneself and embracing the pain and the suffering is the first act of mindfulness.”

“Today we’re so afraid of our own pain, of our own suffering, and of our own capacity that we don’t engage anymore. We’re all in our little worlds. And part of the journey of becoming isn’t an individual matter, it’s about becoming as a whole society.”

“We really live in an era of optimization, and we need to pause for a moment and recognize how many parts of our lives we’re trying to optimize. That may be one of the sicknesses of this era. We can’t allow things to be as they are. So with all the mess going on in the world, the injustice and the violence and the inequality, we pick up these habits from the capitalist grind. But we’re not really offering a different energy.”

“Whether you’re in a shop, on the Tube, at work, or on a Zoom call, when something happens, if we have a default response to allow us to come back to our in-breath and out-breath, and take care of our nervous system and arrive back into ourselves, that’s already an act of kindness. We’re rescuing ourselves. We are giving ourselves a breather, literally.”

“Thich Nhat Hanh was very clear that what our society needs – what we all need – is a different way of being and a different quality of being. And he spoke about the preciousness of time. Time is not money, time is not success, time is not work. Time is life. And we know how short this time is that we have with our children, with our loved ones; the time we have is so short and so precious.”

“How we are being in time, how we are allowing the fullness of any moment to reveal itself, whether we’ve just had bad news or experienced a strong emotion, we can be with that in a certain way. And that is already action, that is already a response, and that’s already patterning something different into society.”

“I don’t really discriminate between micro-resistance and systemic resistance. But I do believe that, when we come together in community – like in moments like this, in the weekly sanghas that many of you are part of we’re reinforcing that capacity of breathing together as an act of resistance, walking together, listening deeply. And then that is penetrating into our lives. It makes us change makers, whether we call ourselves a change maker or not. That’s the Buddhist understanding of action, it’s acting at every level and it’s available to all of us. The closer we are to our truth, to our body, to our breathing, you will be surprised by the kind of courage that manifests.”

“Thay would say a smile can save someone’s life in the right circumstances.”

“Kindness for me is real and it’s a force that can shift and change.”

“Breathing is a life jacket. When those emotions really come, our teachers say you are more than one emotion. Come back and breathe. Don’t let that emotion take over your whole being because you’re so much more than just one emotion, you bring up another emotion to embrace it.”

“My dad would say, ‘One, two, three, smile.’ And we would smile, but we hated it also. But he has transmitted that reminder that even in the midst of agony, that smile is your right.”

“We don’t need to set aside time to be more true to ourselves, to be more true to our values, to be more free, and to be more awake to what’s going on. We can simply do it on our way to work. And what’s life for if it’s not for that? To feel that freedom, to feel that agency, and just to arrive fully into the richness, the mud, and the beauty of this life that we have a chance to be in.”

“Engaged Buddhism means bringing everything you’re learning into the here and now.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by special guest Pham Minh Huong, businesswoman and spiritual practitioner, to discuss integrating Buddhist teachings into the business world.

Pham Minh Huong shares her journey from being a successful but lonely CEO to one who prioritizes trust, mindfulness, and community in her companies – by adopting practices like servant leadership and consensus-building, and by creating a culture of compassion and collaboration. She emphasizes the importance of presence, authenticity, and the power of mindfulness in navigating crises and maintaining a balanced life, but reflects also on the challenges of integrating spirituality into a business world dominated by metrics and competativeness.

Brother Phap Huu shares his own experience as the abbot of Upper Hamlet, while Jo reflects on writing about sustainable businesses for The Guardian and on his current work as leadership coach.

The conversation highlights the potential for businesses to be a source of meaning, connection, and positive change when guided by spiritual principles.

Ms Pham Minh Huong has nearly 30 years of experience in the finance and banking sector. Having previously served as Head of Treasury and Financial Markets at Citibank N.A., she was among the first members to contribute to its operational growth. She is a visionary leader and a pioneer in introducing new products to the market. Her significant contributions to the securities community and her personal professional reputation have established her as a highly respected leader in Vietnam’s financial market.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong

Brother Phap Ung
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/brother-chan-phap-ung

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89

Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeing

‘The Four Dharma Seals of Plum Village’
https://plumvillage.org/articles/the-four-dharma-seals-of-plum-village

The Way Out Is In: ‘Space, Time, and the Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/space-time-and-the-ultimate-dimension-episode-54

The Art of Power
https://plumvillage.org/books/the-art-of-power

Quotes

“Now I have a path, there is nothing to fear.”

“When I first came to Plum Village, I saw that things were very organized, but I didn’t see leaders. And when I asked, people said, ‘That’s because of Yidma.’ Yidma, in Buddha’s teaching, is about consensus. But, at that time, I couldn’t believe that we could run a business in a slow way and build democratic governance as per Thay’s vision.”

“Good teacher, good methodology, and good friends.”

“If everything is important, then, actually, nothing is important.”

“What Buddhism and what the Buddha and Thay offer us is another dimension of really asking the question, ‘What is happiness? What is success?’”

“Engage, trust – and then there’s cooperation. And when there is cooperation, there is power and the result will come. We have to trust in that.”

“Sometimes it’s via absence that people recognize their love. If you’re always there, there’s not always the opportunity for that.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino talk about finding beauty and reverence in the most ordinary of things.

Jo shares his new book, Between Earth and Sky, which documents his time in Mitla, Mexico, and his journey of deep looking and finding beauty in the seemingly empty land. Brother Phap Huu emphasizes the importance of mindfulness, stopping, and being present to see the wonder in everyday life.

The hosts further share the concept of consciousness in everything, and the need for reverence in our habits and interactions. The conversation also touches on reciprocity, the importance of community, and the journey of opening one’s heart through listening and acceptance.

The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners ground themselves in the present moment and to recognize the beauty in all life.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Between Earth and Sky
https://www.parallax.org/product/between-earth-and-sky/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeing

The Way Out Is In: ‘Space, Time, and the Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/space-time-and-the-ultimate-dimension-episode-54

Mitla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitla

Stephen Mitchell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mitchell_(translator)

Tao Te Ching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching

Samsara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra

Pema Chödrön
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n

Quotes

“We can see beauty everywhere.”

“When we feel alive and present on this Earth, what more do we need?”

“The first act of meditation is learning to stop. It is learning to take a pause and feel the present moment. And feeling the present moment is more important than thinking about the present moment, because, when we attune ourselves into our own body, into our senses, what we see, what we smell, what we hear, what we touch gives us an opportunity to be in touch with life in the very here and now.”

“We can sit and look at a tree or even look at a rock and find all of life in that.”

“This is it.”

“We want to know what’s out in space, but we don’t know what is in our inner space.”

“Depending on how we show up, our way of being can shift and change our whole mental formation, our whole consciousness of reality.”

“Reverence creates a sense of reciprocity because, when we have reverence, we are in conversation with whatever is in front of us. So when we think of things as objects, we’re looking at them as separate from ourselves. But when we have reverence for things, we see that they are talking to us as well as we are talking to them.”

“The beauty of Zen is turning a simple moment into a beautiful ritual.”

“Reverence is a manifestation of our mental formations.”

“I invite everybody to hold their next cup of tea, or coffee, or orange juice, with two hands. It shifts you into a different space. A simple action with two hands, and I’m fully present. Just like when we join our palms and offer a bow, it represents the body and the mind that come together.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Xa to explore the revolutionary aspect of walking meditation – not just a physical activity but a spiritual practice that can help us ground ourselves and connect with the present moment.

Brother Phap Xa – who co-authored the book Hiking Zen with Brother Phap Luu – shares practical tips for walking meditation, and personal experiences such as the way this type of meditation has helped him deal with strong emotions and transformed his perspective on life.

The conversation also touches on the concept of aimlessness in walking meditation, the importance of walking for the sake of walking, the benefits of walking in silence, the idea of walking with ancestors, the practice of walking for others, and more.

The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners connect with the present moment when walking.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Brother Phap Xa
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-xa/

Brother Phap Luu
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-luu/

Stephan Harding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_Harding

Hiking Zen
https://www.parallax.org/product/hiking-zen/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

EIAB
https://www.eiab.eu/

‘The Tortoise and the Hare’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

Old Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds/

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18

The Way Out Is In: ‘Guest Episode: Reconnecting with Gaia – A Deep Time Walk’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/guest-episode-reconnecting-with-gaia-a-deep-time-walk

Quotes

“Don’t take another step until you really believe that you can walk in freedom.”

“When we speak about freedom in the practice, it’s freedom to be fully in the present moment, with every step that we take, with every action that we can accumulate.”

“Whenever I am in fifth gear, I know I need to go down to first gear. And I don’t see it as a slowing down, as a bad thing – I see it as an upgrade to the presence, to the quality of freedom.”

“Meditation is in every action. That’s the way we look at it in our tradition. Meditation is to be engaged in the way we stand, the way we sit, the way we move – even the way we lay down. There is an attention that comes from bringing our mindfulness to how we are in the present moment.”

“I have arrived; I’m home wherever I go.”

“When you walk, don’t talk; just walk. This is one of the most difficult practices.”

“The miracle is not to walk on water, the miracle is to walk on this earth.”

“Walking meditation is an important practice for coming back to the present moment, because then we can recognize that there are many wonders happening in the present moment, inside and around us. And it’s already a wonder to be able to breathe, and to be able to be in touch with the many forms and colors around us.”

“Walk for the sake of walking.”