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Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.
The fifth in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Kushinagar, India, in February 2026. In it, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to reflect on the Buddha’s final days and the legacy and continuation of his teachings. They also discuss Thich Nhat Hanh’s passing and how Plum Village responded to his transition; the responsibility of current and future generations to continue his work and teachings; and the importance of the multi-fold community in preserving and spreading the Buddha’s teachings in a way that is relevant and accessible to the modern world.
Furthermore, Shantum Seth provides historical context about the Buddha’s final journey and the events after his passing, including the first Buddhist council and the spread of Buddhism; Brother Phap Huu draws parallels between the Buddha’s and Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings and legacies; and Sister Tam Muoi discusses the importance of the monastic order in continuing the Buddha’s teachings – as well as Thich Nhat Hanh’s vision for the Plum Village tradition to evolve and adapt while staying true to its core principles.
About the pilgrimage:
In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice – one that the Buddha had suggested.
Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.
Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.
To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.
Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.
He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.
Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012, becoming a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, participating in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.
Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/
Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin Zorzini
List of resources
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (3/6) | The Heart of the Buddha’s Teachings (Episode #104)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-3-6-the-heart-of-the-buddhas-teachings-episode-104
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (2/6) | Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree (Episode #103)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-2-6-enlightenment-under-the-bodhi-tree-episode-103
The Way Out Is In: ‘In the Footsteps of the Buddha (1/6) | The Buddha: Down to Earth (Episode #102)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/in-the-footsteps-of-the-buddha-1-6-the-buddha-down-to-earth-episode-102
Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing
Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition
Kushinagar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushinagar
Blue Cliff Monastery
https://www.bluecliffmonastery.org/
No Mud, No Lotus: The Art of Transforming Suffering
https://www.parallax.org/product/no-mud-no-lotus/
The Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeing
The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89
Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81y%C4%81na_Mah%C4%81parinirv%C4%81%E1%B9%87a_S%C5%ABtra
Vinaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinaya
Ashoka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka
Stephen Batchelor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Batchelor_(author)
Bodhicitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhicitta
Sister Dao Nghiem
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-dao-nghiem
Letters from Thich Nhat Hanh
https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/letters
Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths
Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path
Vasubandhu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasubandhu
Sunyata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81
King Prasenajit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasenadi
Kapilavastu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapilavastu_(ancient_city)
Mahākāśyapa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah%C4%81k%C4%81%C5%9Byapa
Quotes
“Thay really practiced the present moment, because in the present you’re also practicing impermanence. There’s only one moment to live and to touch life, and that is the very here and now.”
“All conditioned reality is subject to decay. Strive on diligently – essentially meaning, Everything is impermanent; keep up the practice.”
“Dwelling happily in the present moment is the insight of meditation. But dwelling happily in the present moment doesn’t mean that suffering doesn’t exist; doesn’t mean that our anger and our frustration is not there. But, no matter what the situation is – whether it is loss, grief, frustration, chaos – as a practitioner, we have to have the ability to dwell in the very here and now, and allow ourselves to see that wonder, because that wonder is the light that shines through the darkness, the fog, the chaos.”
“When we’re reaching the end of our lives, we want to declutter. We want to put our affairs in order. We want to make sure, to the best of our abilities, that we leave life clean, that we don’t leave arguments, resentments, and suffering behind for the next generation to have to deal with.”
“I have never met an individual. I meet the entire lineage of that person stretching back to the beginning of time – because, if there’d been an interruption, then you wouldn’t exist.”
“The Buddha said, ‘I’ve never taught with a clenched fist, I have offered all the teachings for you to be calm, peaceful, transform your emotions, and be liberated. And so keep the Dharma as your island and be a light unto yourself, and keep the Dharma as your island.’ So he’s very clear that the Dharma is his continuation; the teachings and practice are his continuation.”
“In a country like India, the Buddha exists at a very ambient level, in the way we live our lives and feel the interconnectedness of everything, with nature, with other people.”
“If we know how to suffer, we’re going to suffer a whole lot less.”
“Thay would always include our lay friends. Whenever he was teaching in any ceremony he would always add, ‘And our lay friends, our sisters and our brothers from the lay community, the multi-fold community.’ He would always correct the language as he went along, even if it wasn’t written down, to include everybody. And this was such a teaching for us that we want to continue it. We do not want to be a monastic community where the monastics are the privileged ones. Instead, we are all practicing together and all have different capacities and different things that we can offer.”
“Thay once shared that his vision is that, one day, we’re all walking in the marketplace and see a monk walking by with peace and grace. And that monk is a bell of mindfulness. You see that monk and you stop and just breathe, connecting back to your spiritual dimension. And then you go on.”
“Thay empowered us, each of us, and now we can empower so many other people. And I think it’s a reminder that we don’t need to look for the teachers and what impact they had; instead, we can look at the impact we are having every day, in all the interactions we have, in all the people we meet, in all of the thoughts we have and all the words we speak, in all the actions. We, each of us, are a continuation. And we’re not a continuation to one other person; we’re a continuation to all of life. The way we are present in nature is the way that nature can be present for us. The way that we are available to other people then gives people the opportunity to be available to others.”
“Everything Thay did, he always reflected back to the Buddha. The Buddha’s whole way of teaching was also to empower everyone he met, to water the seeds of mindfulness and awakening in every person.”
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