ChooseFI | Financial Independence Podcast

Brad Barrett's daughter just graduated high school. She's heading to college in a few months. The number of times he'll see her for the rest of his life? Already countable. This realization—visceral and unavoidable—brought him back to a conversation that changed both his and Chris Hutchins' lives nearly four years ago: their interview with Bill Perkins about Die with Zero. Key Topics Introduction and Episode Impact 00:00:00 Brad and Chris reflect on the massive impact Bill Perkins' Die with Zero episode had on their lives and why they wanted to revisit it. Seasons of Life and Time Bucketing 00:05:30 Brad discusses how the concepts of seasons of life and time bucketing fundamentally changed his perspective, especially as his daughter prepares for college, highlighting the fleeting nature of time with loved ones. The Optimization Trap 00:12:00 Chris shares his struggle with over-optimization, particularly around travel planning and points maximization, and how he's been re-evaluating what he's actually optimizing for in life. Frugality as Superpower and Liability 00:18:45 The hosts debate whether frugality is still a superpower, discussing how the skill of spending shifts throughout different stages of financial independence. Running the Numbers on Withdrawal Rates 00:28:00 Chris shares research on annuity rates and the 4% rule, revealing that 96% of the time people never touch their principal and discussing more rational ways to hedge against financial risk. What Are You Optimizing For? 00:38:15 Both hosts dig into the fundamental question of what they're optimizing for—discussing the Tuesday Project, baseline fulfillment, and creating great average days versus one-off experiences. Time, Work, and Life Balance 00:47:00 Chris processes his struggle with filling all available time with work-adjacent activities and discusses the challenge of setting boundaries when you love what you do. Action Items and Future Plans 00:58:30 The hosts commit to specific actions inspired by the episode, including Chris's summer camp idea for families and Brad's commitment to create time bucket lists. Notable Quotes "You should fear wasting your life more than you fear running out of money." — Brad Barrett (quoting Bill Perkins) "Time is everything. My daughter just graduated high school. She's going to William & Mary in a couple months and again, you talk about seasons of life. Combining this with Tim Urban's The Tail End article, you realize time is running out." — Brad Barrett "I think frugality is a superpower at times and then it becomes a liability at times." — Brad Barrett "What I know for certain is every day I'm running out of time. So that's like a metaphysical certainty. You are running out of time." — Brad Barrett "I've gotten good at spending more when things aren't crazy expensive. Where I still struggle tremendously is when I feel like I'm paying for something that there's a reasonable way to get it for a better deal." — Chris Hutchins Key Takeaways Create a time bucket list: Identify experiences you want to have and assign them to specific age ranges when they would be most meaningful and feasible Calculate your real financial safety margin: Determine if you're using a 2%, 3%, or 4% withdrawal rate and whether that level of conservatism is preventing you from enjoying life now Identify your seasons of life priorities: What matters most in your current season? Kids, health, travel, career? Allocate time and resources accordingly Audit your optimization habits: Are you optimizing for the right things? Is maximizing credit card points costing you more in time and stress than it's worth? Plan one 'season-appropriate' experience: Book something that leverages your current life stage, whether that's a trip with young kids or an adventure that requires physical fitness Consider giving to your children now: If you plan to leave an inheritance, evaluate whether giving some portion during their 20s-30s would have more impact than waiting until…

Reaching financial independence is supposed to be the goal—but what if you get there and realize the real skill isn't earning or saving, but learning to spend? And what if the metric for business success has nothing to do with revenue growth and everything to do with protecting your nervous system? Key Topics Discussed Introduction and the Hidden Curriculum 00:00:00 Brad introduces the concept of life's hidden curriculum—essential lessons never explicitly taught but crucial to building extraordinary lives, including the question extraordinary people consistently ask: "What am I missing, and how could this be useful to me?" Redefining Business Success 00:08:00 Diania explains her counterintuitive decision to keep the EconoMe Conference capped at 500 attendees despite selling out 9+ months in advance, redefining success around maintaining a calm nervous system rather than maximizing revenue or scaling. Enoughness and Simplifying Life 00:15:00 A discussion about determining "enough" in business, friendships, and life overall. Brad shares why he chose not to scale ChooseFI to Dave Ramsey levels, and both explore the power of intentional constraints. The Tuesday Project 00:22:00 Brad introduces his framework for designing FI around what your ideal average Tuesday looks like—waking without an alarm, taking walks in green space, accessing amenities on foot—rather than focusing solely on extraordinary experiences. Daily Routines and Time Abundance 00:30:00 Diania shares her 4-5 AM morning routine, one-meeting-a-day philosophy, and how she structures days with intention and flexibility to protect both productivity and mental space. The Skill of Spending in FI 00:42:00 Both hosts examine the challenge of learning to spend money intentionally after reaching FI, including examples like grocery delivery services and making purchases without the scarcity-driven research habits that got them to FI. From Scarcity to Abundance 00:55:00 Diania reveals how her annual spending increased from $60K to over $100K—all on discretionary categories like health, relationships, generosity, and travel—while caring about money less than ever. She shares her recent $29K car purchase and why FI as a goal became irrelevant once the journey transformed her life. Values, Idealism, and Materialism 01:08:00 A deep exploration of understanding true values versus social programming, the realization of not actually wanting the status symbols you thought you did, and how reducing materialism creates space for idealism. Health and the Better Body Challenge 01:18:00 Diania details her transformative six-month fitness accountability challenge requiring 5 weekly workouts, 70,000 steps per week, daily protein goals, and data uploads—with a $100/week fine for missing targets. Backing Yourself Into a Corner 01:32:00 Discussion about public accountability, understanding what motivates you personally, and intentionally creating circumstances that ensure follow-through on worthy goals. Notable Quotes Brad Barrett: "A lot of people who consistently build extraordinary lives ask, what am I missing, and how could this be useful to me?" Diania Merriam: "Success is a calm nervous system for you personally." Diania Merriam: "I'm not looking for followers. I'm not looking for customers. I really look at them as my peers." Diania Merriam: "My risk has flipped from running out of money to running out of time. I am much more willing to waste money than to waste time." Diania Merriam: "The less materialistic I am, the more idealistic I get to be." Key Takeaways Identify one area where you're using scarcity mindset despite financial security and experiment with an abundance-based decision Design your Tuesday Project: write down what your ideal average Tuesday would look like in FI and identify what's preventing that now Audit your attention: identify what's stealing your focus in ways that don't align with your values and set one boundary Consider joining an accountability group for a goal…

Most investors think they're buying the same thing when they choose a target date fund—but two people who bought 2025 target date funds 15 years ago could have 40% different returns today. Same target year, wildly different outcomes. The culprit? Fund families structure these "simple" investments in dramatically different ways, and most investors never look under the hood. Key Topics Discussed Passive Investing vs Active Financial Planning (00:03:30) Cody explains why you should be a passive investor but an active financial planner in your own life, noting that 95% of active investors underperform broad index funds over time. Understanding Target Date Funds (00:08:15) How target date funds work as default 401(k) options, automatically shifting from aggressive to conservative allocations as retirement approaches along a predetermined glide path. Surprising Differences Between Target Date Funds (00:18:45) The revelation that identical retirement target years can produce vastly different outcomes depending on fund family—differences in international exposure, bond types, and allocation strategies compound over time. Comparing Fidelity, Schwab, and Vanguard Target Dates (00:24:00) Detailed breakdown of how three major fund families structure their target date index funds differently, with varying philosophies on diversification and risk management. The Hidden Costs of Target Date Funds (00:32:20) Analysis showing target date index funds cost 35% to 400% more than purchasing underlying index funds directly. Fidelity's target date index fund, for example, is four times more expensive than buying Fidelity's component funds separately. Static Allocation Funds Explained (00:38:10) Introduction to balanced funds that maintain constant allocations (like 60/40 stocks/bonds) regardless of your age or proximity to retirement. Target Maturity vs Constant Maturity Bond Funds (00:42:30) Deep dive into how target maturity bond funds differ from traditional bond index funds—all bonds mature in the same year, converting to cash automatically without requiring you to sell anything. The Seven-Year Bond Strategy (00:48:15) Cody's approach to determining bond allocation: calculate seven years of planned spending and hold that percentage in bonds. If you'll withdraw $40,000 annually from a $1 million portfolio, hold 28% in bonds ($280,000) and 72% in stocks. Bond Ladders and Behavioral Finance (00:55:00) How target maturity bond funds overcome psychological barriers to spending in retirement by eliminating the need to "sell" assets—bonds simply mature into cash when you need it. Simplicity vs Complexity in Portfolio Design (01:02:30) Cody shares his personal eight-fund retirement portfolio strategy, explaining why something that appears complex can actually feel simpler from a behavioral perspective. Notable Quotes Mike Piper, CPA (quoted by Cody Garrett, CFP®): "There is no perfect portfolio, but there are countless perfectly fine portfolios." Rick Ferri, CFA (quoted by Cody Garrett, CFP®): "The perfect portfolio is the one you're going to stick with. Maintaining discipline is the hardest part of investing." Cody Garrett, CFP®: "Once you understand what a target date fund is, you no longer need one." Cody Garrett, CFP®: "Investing is like a bar of soap. The more you touch it, the less there is." Brad Barrett: "Success in personal finance and investing comes down more to behavior, vastly more to behavior than it comes down to any type of knowledge or intelligence." Key Takeaways Review your 401(k) fund lineup and sort by expense ratio to identify the lowest-cost index fund options available to you If your 401(k) lacks low-cost index funds (under 0.10% expense ratio), contact your plan administrator to request they be added to the fund lineup Calculate how much money you plan to spend from your portfolio over the next seven years to determine your appropriate bond allocation Visit Morningstar.com and review the portfolio tab of any target date funds yo…

At 21, Cody Berman appeared on ChooseFI as a college student discovering financial independence. Three years later, he retired at 26. Now 30 with a $5 million net worth, he's back to reveal exactly how he compressed a decades-long journey into a three-year sprint—and why the same principles work whether you're 25 or 55. The Journey from 22 to FI at 26 00:05:30 Cody's path to financial independence was methodical and aggressive. Between ages 22 and 25, he experimented with over 20 side hustles, scaling his income from $96K to more than $400K annually. The key? He kept expenses locked at just $24K per year—creating a massive gap of $625K over three years. That gap fueled three wealth-building engines: $500K in stock market investments (VOO, VTSAX, VTI) 13 rental properties generating $3,700/month in passive income Digital products businesses producing $10K/month By his 26th birthday, Cody had achieved "cashflow FI"—his passive income streams covered living expenses without touching his investment portfolio. The Psychology of Financial Independence 00:18:00 Brad and Cody explore why some people achieve FI while others with similar incomes stay stuck. The answer isn't math—it's psychology and awareness. Cody attributes his success to having a clear destination. When you know exactly where you're going and why it matters, spending $100 on something that doesn't serve that destination becomes harder than saying no. The infamous "second marshmallow" experiment demonstrates this: delaying gratification becomes easier when you're aware of what you're trading for. As Cody puts it: "Earn more, spend less, invest the gap. Very simple. That is financial independence in a nutshell." Passive Income Reality Check 00:28:00 Let's demolish the myth of truly passive income. Cody manages 13 rental properties—but spends just 4-5 hours per month on them. This represents the spectrum of passive income: not zero effort, but minimal effort relative to the returns. The secret? Working in seasons rather than constant hustle mode. Some months require more attention (tenant turnover, maintenance issues), while others are nearly hands-off. Cody's businesses also follow this pattern—periods of intense development followed by relative autopilot. Brad reinforces this with math: "Every $100 a month you can cut out of your budget is $30,000 less you need in your FI number." Over 20 years, that $100/month compounds to $60K invested. That's a $90K swing from a single optimization. Designing the Perfect Tuesday 00:42:00 Forget exotic vacations—FI is about winning on a random Tuesday. Cody and Lauren's ideal weekday reveals what financial independence actually looks like: Morning: Wake naturally, coffee together, workout (him: gym; her: Pilates), shower, work on creative projects they enjoy Midday: Lunch together, afternoon walk in their neighborhood, separate time for individual pursuits Evening: Dinner together, reading, quality time before bed Nothing dramatic. No yachts. Just complete autonomy over every hour of a normal day. They maintain this through monthly alignment meetings—typically at a restaurant over a nice meal—covering: Money and real estate Health and fitness Travel plans Relationships (with a safe space to address concerns) Friends and family A rotating category Goals for the next month They also record an annual video reviewing the year, creating a time capsule of their journey. Post-FI Life and the Book 00:58:00 What actually happens when you achieve FI? Cody shares the uncomfortable truth: "Anything that you say that you want to do and that you don't do is a Cody problem. Before FI, you can blame things on time. You can blame things on money." When those excuses disappear, you're left facing yourself. That can be liberating and terrifying. His new book, Retire by Thirty, addresses this and more. Like Tim Ferriss's The Four Hour Workweek, the title is provocative but the principles are universal. Whether you compress your FI journey from 50-55, 33…

Bill Yount reached financial independence at 60—then froze. His financial advisor confirmed 100% security, yet instead of relief, he felt disoriented fog. The emergency medicine physician who transformed from YOLO spender to 40% saver now struggles with a question that haunts many late starters: if I'm financially free, why can't I leave? Key Topics Discussed 00:05:30 The Wake-Up Call: From YOLO to Financial Awareness Bill's trifecta of mistakes at age 50: being house poor after an underwater renovation, maintaining a single-digit savings rate, and panic-selling stocks at market bottom. A lawsuit became the catalyst for confronting financial reality and transforming to a 30-40% savings rate within a decade. 00:15:00 The Emotional Journey: Anger, Shame, and Transformation Processing the emotional weight of starting late requires confronting anger, shame, and regret. Bill explains how downsizing from material excess created unexpected freedom, and why late starters must do the psychological work alongside the mathematical calculations. 00:22:00 The Partnership: Wife's Role and Family Dynamics Bill's wife became Chief Visionary Officer, returned to work full-time, and they saved her entire income through solo 401(k)s. Their journey debunks the "rich doctor syndrome" myth—25% of physicians at age 60 aren't even millionaires. 00:28:00 The Fog of FI: Reaching the Number and Not Knowing What's Next Sitting across from a financial advisor who confirmed complete financial security, Bill experienced unexpected confusion instead of celebration. This disorienting state—FOGO, or fear of getting out—reveals how identity and emotion don't automatically align with mathematical achievement. 00:35:00 One More Year Syndrome and Identity Struggles Despite being FI, Bill continues working twelve-hour emergency medicine night shifts. He candidly explores identity wrapped up in being a doctor, the meaning derived from patient care, and the difficulty of imagining life beyond the hospital. 00:42:00 The Glide Path: Cutting Shifts and Taking Action After Doc G asked for "one good reason" to keep his current schedule and Bill couldn't answer, he committed to cutting two shifts per month. This gradual approach offers an alternative to the all-or-nothing retirement cliff. 00:50:00 Lessons for Late Starters: Beliefs and Barriers Common limiting beliefs that paralyze late starters include "I'm too far behind," "I don't make enough," and "I don't know enough." Bill emphasizes it's always the right time to start, and the math works the same regardless of income level. 00:58:00 Health, Wealth, and Future Planning A frank discussion about neglecting physical health during wealth accumulation. Bill commits to refocusing on exercise and wellness to minimize the gap between healthspan and lifespan during the "go-go years" of early retirement. 01:05:00 Community, Travel, and What's Next Future plans include traveling to Norway with his sons, speaking at KiwiFi in New Zealand, and an ambitious mission: ensuring every medical resident receives a financial plan by 2035. Notable Quotes Bill Yount: "The emphasis, as we say, on late starter is on the starting and not being late." Bill Yount: "Between stimulus and response is a space. And we need to embrace that space because in that space, we need to regulate and choose our response." Bill Yount: "Relationships compound better than money, I think." Bill Yount: "It's better late than never. And we can catch up to FI together." Ginger: "I think a lot of people say, oh, that person is like me, right? And if they can do it, I can do it." Key Takeaways Track your money completely: Know your net worth, understand expenses, and identify where money goes before creating a plan Implement a reverse budget: Save your target percentage (30-40% if possible) off the top first, then spend the rest according to values Address the emotional work: Process anger, shame, and regret about past mistakes. Forgiveness matters as much as spreads…