The Oral Talmud

• Episode 22 - Hillel & Shammai: Beyond Elu v’Elu

  “Ultimately the only way that you actually take these lessons into your soul is through trying to implement it in your actual life. And often that's gonna be failure!“ - Dan LibensonWelcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. Dan & Benay return to the daf after a series of interviews, picking up where we left off in Episode 19, exploring where the editors of the Talmud went next after the famous “Eilu v’Eilu” moment between the Schools of Shammai and Hillel. While they were both decreed to be “Words of the Living God” (or some arrangement of those words), the halakha was said to be decided according to Beit Hillel because they taught the teachings of Beit Shammai before their own. But the very next line in the Talmud - which is rarely ever read - seems to undercut the entire message of this practice! Were we making too big a deal about Beit Hillel? Did the editor of this part of the Talmud misunderstand something? Are they intentionally undermining the first narrative? What do we do when we encounter texts that appear to reverse the radical potential we had seen in them before? And what is going on when Talmud brings in aphorism and folk sayings? Are they really able to help us recognize when we’re messing up? How can we offer and receive the loving rebuke of tokhecha? This week’s text: “Hillel & Shammai: After Elu v’Elu” (Eruvin 13b)Find an edited transcript and full show notes (references and further reading) on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

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• Episode 21: Dissecting Daf Yomi with Ilana Kurshan

  “Part of what I love about Talmud is that even if you're just listening, there's so many gaps, so many rough edges, so many places that don't quite fit together. There're all these holes and you, the reader, burrow into those holes. You find your nook, your cranny, your space, your neek’rat ha’tzur. And it's the nature of the discourse that has you do that. I don't think it's possible to learn this text passively!”  - Ilana KurshanWelcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest Ilana Kurshan, author of the award-winning “If All the Seas Were Ink: A Memoir” (2017) through the lens of Daf Yomi, the practice of studying a whole page of Talmud each day. Ilana Kurshan has worked in literary publishing both in New York and in Jerusalem as a translator and foreign rights agent, and as the books editor of Lilith Magazine. Since our interview, she has published, “Children of the Book: A Memoir of Reading Together” (2025) about raising kids and a love of books.Long-time listeners of The Oral Talmud will have picked up on split opinions between Dan & and Benay regarding the practice of Daf Yomi, and Ilana joins perfectly suited to plead the case for this fast-paced daily learning! What’s at stake in different methods of Talmud study? How can a reader avoid giving up when the Talmud gets boring? How can we find additional excitement when starting a new masechet (tractate/volume)? What are the unique benefits and spiritual opportunities of Daf Yomi? What happens when we bring our own literary and background interests as lenses to Talmud? And, in the end, how can we avoid a passive learning position in Daf Yomi (or in any method of study) and always ensure that our learning is empowering?For this episode, we’d like to remind listeners, that every episode exists as an unedited video recording from our first broadcast in 2020. Ilana is a very animated guest! (Find this episode on YouTube)Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

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• Episode 20: Transforming Story into Law with Jane Kanarek

  “I want activist reads to also be responsible reads, which is why I’m so committed to people being anchored and being able to actually read these classical texts.” - Jane KanarekWelcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest Professor Jane Kanarek of Hebrew College Rabbinical School, author of “Biblical Narrative and the Formation of Rabbinic Law” (2014), “The Pedagogy of Slowing Down: Teaching Talmud in a Summer Kollel” (2010), and “Throwing the Talmud Across the Room: Emotions and the Cultivation of Subjectivity in Talmud Study” (2025, via Taylor & Francis). Jane Kanarek joins the Oral Talmud to discuss her understand of what the sages were doing in constructing the Talmud, and her pedagogic values in building a Rabbinic School classroom. What are the Rabbis doing with the Book of Genesis when they transform stories into law, especially when it comes to the most shocking narratives? What is the Rabbis’ relationship to Torah, especially in the moments that we’ve labeled them as misquoting torah in past episodes of The Oral Talmud? What evidence do we actually have for the Rabbis’ relationship to God and Talmud, beyond the winking? Why do we teach Talmud, and what are our goals for our students? How can a thoughtful teacher incorporate secondary texts as new commentaries for helping students develop lenses to read the Talmud through? What comes to the surface when we really slow down our learning?Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

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• Episode 19: The Elu v’Elu Episode

  “Opinions that are contradictory to one another, the opposite of one another are both the words of God.” - Dan LibensonWelcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. This episode is dedicated to beloved Talmud translator Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz who passed in 2020, in the days before recording this episode. After honouring his life, Dan and Benay return to learning the deeply radical daf Eruvin 13. (For background, listen to Episodes 12, 13, and 15.) The legend of Rabbi Meir asks us to think about the qualities of the Talmud’s ideal person, how they think and lead in the world. Today we explore how this question comes alive in the relationship between the early rabbinic Schools of Shammai and Hillel, in the famous “Elu v’Elu” story!What is the relationship between translation, access, and the joy of figuring it all out? How important is it to notice which Divine Names the Talmud authors are invoking in particular stories? How do we deal with the indeterminacy of truth? Can it be that God actually wants us to hold opinions that are contradictory to one another? Is this text a lesson on the best way to convince people of our opinions or the best way to build lasting relationships with people we disagree with? How do we preserve dissent for the future?This week’s text: “Elu v’Elu, These and These are the Words of The Living God” (Eruvin 13b)Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

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• Episode 18: What Tisha b’Av Can Learn From Yom Kippur

  “We have to imagine that everything that we love today, or don't love, might end up in the Tisha b’Av of the future.” - Dan LibensonWelcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. This episode was originally released for Tisha b’Av in 2020, the Jewish calendar’s most essential day of mourning and remembrance. In our new podcast re-release schedule, this episode is coming out much closer to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. As Hashem would have it, Dan and Benay draw some fascinating connections between Tisha b’Av and Yom Kippur, deepening our appreciation and intentions for both. How do holidays slip away from their most potent purposes? What does it mean to mourn for something, somewhen, or someone without wanting it or them back? How do we deal with a guilt of not being in a constant state of mourning? How can we use Tisha b’Av to reflect on the great CRASHes of history, the shifting eras of authority and responsibility? What we can’t imagine losing?Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

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