The SAF Podcast

• The SAF Podcast: SMBC - All things not the same for equity and debt financing

  In this episode of The SAF Podcast, we sit down with Martin Forman, Director at Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation (SMBC), to explore the challenges and opportunities in financing sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) projects. With a background spanning energy M&A, hydrogen, CCS, and biofuels, Martin brings a pan-European and global view on decarbonisation finance.We discuss why Japanese institutions—particularly trading houses and banks—have become such active SAF investors, and how Japan’s domestic SAF mandates are triggering large-scale international investments. Martin explains SMBC’s strategic interest across the SAF value chain, from project lending to aircraft leasing and storage infrastructure, and outlines what makes a SAF project attractive from a lender's perspective.The conversation dives deep into equity versus debt in project finance, the challenges of funding first-of-a-kind SAF technologies, and the growing importance of public-private partnerships. Martin shares candid insights on why equity—more than debt—is the bottleneck, and how regulation, price certainty, and government support mechanisms like Project SkyPower are critical for unlocking financing and achieving 2030 mandate targets.Finally, Forman discusses SMBC's preference for club lending arrangements, strategic sponsors over financial investors, and the importance of proximity to feedstock sources. If you enjoyed this discussion check out our previous episode with Richard Mathers, Honeywell here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2202964/episodes/17475885

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• The SAF Podcast: Honeywell - Evolving, acquiring and forming alliances

  In this episode of The SAF Podcast we are joined by Richard Mathers, Senior Director of Business Development at Honeywell Sustainable Technology Solutions, for an in-depth exploration of Honeywell’s expanding role in sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) technology. If you follow any form of SAF news, you will have heard of Honeywell given their announcements of the ongoing $1.8bn all cash acquisition of Johnson Matthey's Catalyst Technology solutions business and the formation of the SAF Alliance alongside Johnson Matthey, Samsung Electronics E&A, GIDARA Energy. These collaborations aim to streamline project delivery, reduce capital expenditure by up to 10%, and accelerate project timelines by 15%. First, Richard walks us through Honeywell’s approach to technology licensing, project financing, and feedstock flexibility across multiple SAF pathways—including HEFA, ethanol-to-jet, methanol-to-jet (eFining), and FT-Unicracking.Richard explains the critical role technology licensors play beyond just providing technology – from performance guarantees and warranties to supporting project finance and reducing perceived risks throughout the project lifecycle.Richard provides valuable insights into technology licensing benefits, project financing considerations, and how Honeywell's evolutionary approach to proven technologies helps de-risk SAF production investments.If you enjoyed this discussion check out our previous episode with SKyNRG and ICF discussing their recent Global Market Outlook report here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2202964/episodes/17435560

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• The SAF Podcast: The now annual SkyNRG and ICF SAF Market Outlook review

  This week's SAF Podcast is our now annual deep dive into the global SAF Market Outlook from SkyNRG and ICF. This year we were joined by Anna Liznerova, SkyNRG and Mark Kelly, ICF. After weeks of late nights and weekends on this extra curricular project they share key insights and methodologies from the report.The conversation kicks off with the key takeaways from the report notably, Europe's role as the backbone of SAF demand with strong mandates requiring over one million tonnes in 2025, rising to four million tonnes by 2030. Despite Europe driving demand, it represents only 18% of global jet fuel uplift, highlighting the critical need for policy development beyond European borders.Another major takeaway is Asia's remarkable growth, now accounting for nearly 30% of announced SAF capacity by 2030, overtaking Europe and trailing only the United States. The rise raising important questions about feedstock diversion, sustainability concerns, and potential fraud in waste oil supplies from the region.The discussion delves into demand modeling challenges, examining three scenarios ranging from pessimistic, realistic and optimistic outlooks through 2050. Mark explains the methodology behind forecasting policy-driven versus voluntary corporate demand, while Anna details SkyNRG's production mapping approach across nearly 400 global projects.The final and new section of the report, Mark and Anna give an overview of the "HEFA tipping point" – when demand for HEFA based SAF will exceed available sustainable feedstocks, likely around 2030-2031. This timeline creates urgency for advancing alternative pathways like e-fuels, which face their own regulatory and economic challenges. The experts navigate the complex interplay between policy design, investor confidence, technical feasibility, and sustainability imperatives that will determine SAF's future.What emerges is a nuanced picture: despite delays and setbacks, the industry continues moving forward, though perhaps not as rapidly as hoped. The coming years will be critical for project development, particularly for facilities using advanced technologies beyond conventional HEFA. With the amount of developments globally in SAF, is 30 pages enough to cover the ground or does it need extending to a 200 page thesis?Check out the full report here, it is well worth a read: https://skynrg.com/safmo25/If you enjoyed this check out our previous discussion with Jim Stonecipher, EdyMac about the lessons industry can learn from failed projects like Fulcrum BioEnergy: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2202964/episodes/17395177

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• The SAF Podcast: Jim Stonecipher - Fulcrum BioEnergy and a cautionary tale for SAF Production

  In this episode of The SAF Podcast, we are joined by Jim Stonecipher, Managing Director at EdyMac and former executive at Fulcrum BioEnergy. With over 30 years of chemical engineering experience, Jim offers a candid, behind-the-scenes look at Fulcrum's high-profile journey—from promise to Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The company's ambitious vision to convert municipal solid waste into sustainable aviation fuel represented a promising technological pathway, but faced numerous obstacles—from COVID-related supply chain disruptions to fundamental issues with technology scale-up and integration.The conversation explores the delicate balance between technological development and financial reality, revealing how the notorious "valley of death" between pilot demonstration and commercial deployment claims so many promising innovations. Stonecipher advocates for more thorough engineering work early in the development process, describing it as "intelligence gathering" that identifies risks before they become expensive problems.At the heart of Stonecipher's message is some crucial advice for technology developers: pilot testing must be comprehensive, integrated, and representative of what will be deployed at commercial scale. "The more you can mimic at the pilot scale," he explains, "the higher your chances of success." This lesson, while seemingly straightforward, runs counter to the pressure many startups face to move quickly toward commercialization to satisfy investor timelines.The conversation also delves into investor relations, capital stack composition, and how early-stage decisions can make or break long-term success. Jim explains that he sees promise in more modular, incremental approaches to scaling SAF production—starting smaller, proving performance, and then replicating successful units rather than attempting massive facilities from the outset. This "Lego-style" approach could help bridge the gap between technological promise and commercial reality.If you enjoyed this episode check out our previous episode with Smitha Hariharan, Gulfstream here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2202964/episodes/17362935

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• The SAF Podcast: Gulfstream - Getting sandy in SAF's beachhead

  This week on the SAF Podcast Smitha Hariharan, Vice President and Chief Sustainability Officer at Gulfstream Aerospace, discusses how one of the leading business jet manufacturer is pioneering sustainability through a comprehensive three-pillar strategy that balances environmental responsibility with business performance, with a heavy focus on Sustainable Aviation Fuel since 2011. From Gulfstream's groundbreaking 2011 transatlantic flight using 50% SAF to their 2023 achievement of flying a G600 from Savannah to Farnborough with 100% SAF in both engines (a full week before Virgin Atlantic's much-publicized commercial demonstration). Hariharan reveals Gulfstream's comprehensive sustainability strategy built on three pillars: aircraft efficiency, operational improvements, and fuel innovation. The company has committed to reducing Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 40% by 2034 while supporting the aviation industry's ambitious 2050 net-zero goal. Their groundbreaking achievements include the first transatlantic business jet flight using 100% SAF—accomplished one week before Virgin's celebrated commercial flight.The conversation explores how corporate customers are increasingly demanding sustainable aviation solutions, driving business aviation's transformation. Hariharan discusses the critical importance of book-and-claim mechanisms for expanding SAF access, particularly at smaller regional airports where business jets operate. She also addresses the challenges of scaling beyond HEFA-based SAF to next-generation pathways essential for meeting 2050 targets.As a member of the Business Aviation Coalition for Sustainable Aviation Fuel, Gulfstream continues advancing industry-wide SAF adoption through rigorous testing, ASTM evaluation processes, and strategic partnerships with engine manufacturers like Rolls-Royce. This episode provides invaluable insights into how business aviation serves as a crucial testing ground for sustainable aviation innovations that will eventually benefit the entire aviation sector.If you enjoyed this episode, check out our previous discussion which dives into Book and Claim more deeply with Andre de Fontaine about the Sustainable Aviation Buyers Alliance here, https://www.buzzsprout.com/2202964/episodes/17279231

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