Better Future with Michael Mezz

My guest today is Olivier De Schutter – UN Special Rapporteur on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights, and one of the most important voices in the global movement to redesign the economy around human wellbeing rather than endless growth for the ultra-rich.

We recorded this conversation at the +Wellbeing Economy Forum in Iceland, and our discussion covers a lot of ground – the myths that prop up capitalism; the winners and losers of globalization; the case for economic democracy; how to direct capital toward care work and the solidarity economy; and what a post-growth transition would actually look like.

For a detailed picture of the policies that can guide this transition, you can view the newly-released roadmap “Eradicating Poverty Beyond Growth” here: https://www.neep-poverty.org/roadmap-for-eradicating-poverty-beyond-growth/

Support the Better Future podcast by becoming a paid subscriber on Substack: https://betterfuturemedia.substack.com/

Learn more about the Wellbeing Economy Forum, an annual conference in Iceland for the wellbeing economy movement: https://www.wellbeingeconomyforum.com/

Subscribe to the Better Future podcast on your preferred platform:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz 
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833

Follow Olivier on social media: 
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivier-de-schutter-83990552/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/odeschutter/
X: https://x.com/DeSchutterO

Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/MICHAEL__MEZZ/
Watch our clips on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/

00:00 Intro: The economy panders to the rich 
00:58 Introducing Olivier De Schutter
01:47 Why capitalist efficiency is a myth 
07:19 Has capitalism actually defeated poverty? 
12:27 The commodification of life and the dismantling of the commons 
16:28 The winners and losers of growth and globalization
22:21 The progressive alternative to protectionism 
30:38 Why we need economic democracy 
35:46 The Easterlin paradox: growth without happiness 
39:34 Post-growth as a culture shift 
43:10 How international debt traps the Global South 
50:43 Care work, wages, and the solidarity economy
59:00 Recessions are not post-growth 
01:02:45 Conclusion

Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta 
Guest: Olivier De Schutter 
Editor: Nuria Salgado 
Designer: Amea Wadsworth
Thanks for watching episode 013. Stay tuned for more!

My guest today is Rob Hopkins – co-founder of the Transition Network, a global movement supporting communities to reimagine and rebuild their local economies in response to climate and economic crisis. He's the author of several books, including his most recent, How to Fall in Love with the Future, which makes the case that imagination – not fear – is the most powerful force for change we have. We discuss the limits of the climate movement’s fear-based narrative, Afrofuturist and other resistance movements bringing Rob and Michael hope, and what it means to build a mass longing for a better world. We also did a live imagination exercise with the audience – and you'll want to stick around for it.

This was the first-ever live interview on the Better Future podcast, recorded at ChangeNOW in Paris.

Learn more about Rob and his work: https://www.robhopkins.net/ 

Find his new book, How to Fall In Love With The Future, on Spotify and Bookshop.

Support the Better Future podcast by subscribing: 
Substack:⁠ https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/⁠ 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz 
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0 
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833

Follow Rob on social media: 
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robhopkins5085/
X: https://x.com/robintransition
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-hopkins-09442948/

Learn more about ChangeNOW, an annual climate solution conference in Paris: https://www.changenow.world/

Timestamps:
00:00 Filling our minds with stories of hope
00:53 Introducing Rob Hopkins 
02:14 Why the future is being canceled (and colonized)
03:34 The problem with the climate movement
08:02 Afrofuturism, Sun Ra, and filling the future with stories 
12:15 What “longing” means - and why it matters 
16:43 Filling our minds with better stories
21:39 Is climate optimism naive?
26:04 Evidence-based dreaming 
29:21 Stopping the rise of the far right: the UK Green Party
33:10 Why fascism hates creativity 
38:33 Afrofuturist history & reimagining the future from the US
43:20 Live exercise: Imagining a better future
48:27 Conclusion

Credits:
Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta 
Guest: Rob Hopkins 
Editor: Nuria Salgado 
Designer: Amea Wadsworth

Thanks for watching, and see you soon!

My guest today is Dr. Butch Ware – historian, professor, and Green Party candidate for Governor of California. In this episode, Dr. Ware argues that the Democrat-Republican duopoly serves the same corporate donors, wages the same wars, and has delivered the same failed outcomes for working people – and that California's 2026 governor's race is a chance for something better. We get into why the lesser-of-two-evils argument keeps well-intentioned voters trapped, what a world built around universal healthcare, housing, and human rights could look like, and how the ongoing collapse of the US empire might be the political opportunity progressives have been waiting for.

Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/

Support Dr. Ware’s campaign for California Governor: https://www.butchware4gov.com

Note: Dr. Ware is currently appealing a legal decision (made after we recorded) that would remove his name from the California ballot. His social media channels will have updates on the status of his appeal 👇

Follow Dr. Ware on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/butchware
X: https://x.com/butchware
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@butch.ware

Subscribe to the Better Future podcast:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833

Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/
Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/

00:00 Intro: The extinction burst of American empire
00:58 Introducing Dr. Butch Ware
01:34 The viability of third party politics in California
08:00 The “lesser of two evils” trap
14:53 The corporate power behind both major parties
21:17 The extinction burst of the American empire & what comes next
24:52 What comes after empire? A vision for a care economy
35:39 Why a care economy is better for everyone
39:28 The stock market is not the economy
44:22 War, capitalism and resource extraction
49:37 Investing in wellbeing instead of empire
55:15 The UK Green Party breakthrough
1:01:05 Policy Vision: Healthcare, Housing, and Human Rights
1:10:41 Why Dr. Ware & the Greens can win
1:15:08 Conclusion

Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta
Guest: Dr. Butch Ware
Editor: Nuria Salgado
Designer: Amea Wadsworth

Thanks for watching episode 011. Lots more on the way.

My guest today is Greg Stoker, a former U.S. Army Ranger who has become a prominent anti-imperialist activist, journalist, and geopolitical commentator. In this conversation, we discuss the escalating conflict in Iran and the broader forces driving U.S. military intervention abroad. Greg shares an insider perspective on how soldiers are taught to understand America’s role in the world, the pervasive influence of evangelical Christianity within the military, and the ideological forces behind U.S. foreign policy. Finally, we talk about his run for Congress (TX-31), and what ordinary people can do to challenge imperialism and build a more peaceful and democratic world.

Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/

Support Greg’s campaign for Congress: https://www.stokerfortexas.com/

Follow Greg on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greg.j.stoker/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@greg.j.stoker
X: https://x.com/gregjstoker

Follow Greg’s podcast Colonial Outcasts:
Youtube: https://youtube.com/@colonialoutcasts
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1o0MF5fJM6Wjdhm0vjx4To

Subscribe to the Better Future podcast:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833
Pocket Casts: https://pca.st/podcast/2559a4c0-39f4-013e-1c18-0acc26574db2

Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/
Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/

You can email Michael at [email protected]

0:00 This is a war on the working class
1:41 Introducing Greg Stoker
2:39 Why the U.S. & Israel are waging war in Iran
6:08 U.S. capitalist imperialism and wars on the working class
11:49 Why the U.S. needs homelessness
15:32 Debunking justifications for this war in Iran
24:42 The role of radical Christian evangelicalism
29:31 Israel’s role in the “rapture”
33:20 Why evangelical ideology is useful to billionaires
37:36 AI for military targeting
40:50 Pathways toward a better future
46:24 Building coalitions across movements
57:25 Conclusion

Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta
Guest: Greg Stoker
Editor: Nuria Salgado
Designer: Amea Wadsworth

Thanks for watching episode 10. Lots more on the way :)

My guest today is Saikat Chakrabarti – former chief of staff to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, co-founder of Justice Democrats, co-author of the Green New Deal, and now a candidate for Congress running to replace Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco. We discuss whether the Democratic Party can be transformed from within, why corporate money has hollowed out American politics, and what it would take to build an economy that works for everyone. We also dive deep into AI – who should control it, and why leaving decisions about humanity’s future in the hands of a handful of tech CEOs may be the most dangerous form of deregulation yet.

Support Saikat’s campaign for Congress: https://www.saikat.us/
Support the Better Future podcast on Substack: https://michaelmezzatesta.substack.com/

Follow Saikat on social media:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saikatforcongress
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@saikatforcongress
X: https://x.com/saikatc

Subscribe to the Better Future podcast:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelmezz
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/16K0dkbk35q0mTslKJJ7z0
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/better-future-with-michael-mezz/id1823942833

Follow Michael on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michael__mezz/
Follow the Better Future podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterfuturepod/

0:00 Who controls AI’s future?
0:46 Intro: Saikat Chakrabarti
1:19 Corporate capture in the democratic party
7:03 From tech millionaire to “class traitor”
10:57 Scapegoating immigrants and abolishing ICE
13:48 Reagan’s neoliberal legacy and the case for public investment
22:02 The “March for Billionaires” and wealth inequality
31:33 Building a net zero, high wage economy
42:00 A new foreign policy beyond colonialism
48:43 AI, China, and democratic control of technology
56:46 Replacing corporate Democrats
1:00:16 Cutting funding to Israel
1:02:46 Supporting Saikat

Host/Creator: Michael Mezzatesta
Guest: Saikat Chakarbarti
Editor: Nuria Salgado
Designer: Amea Wadsworth
Thanks for watching episode 009. Lots more on the way :)