Clever with Amy Devers

Public artist Michael Townsend grew up in a military family that relocated often—at least ten times during his childhood. He learned early how to explore new locales and seek out new friends before moving on to the next temporary hometown. His final relocation was to study art at RISD, when he chose Providence as home—and began quietly reshaping it. He founded the Tape Art movement in 1989 and built a thriving practice rooted in ephemeral public murals, deeply personal underground installations, and highly clandestine collaborations, including the now-legendary Secret Mall Apartment.
For more than 30 years, he has created hundreds of temporary murals and collaborative public works around the world, including the 9/11 Hope Project and the invention of the BOOM! Projector. Now, with the success of the Secret Mall Apartment documentary on Netflix, it’s clear that he and his collaborators were deeply intentional about incubating that narrative until it was ready to be heard.
Moving fluidly in and out of the shadows—showing up, making an impression, then dissolving underground only to emerge again—turns out Michael himself may be a work of ephemeral art.
Images and more from Michael Townsend on our website!

Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.

Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes
SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers

Special thanks to our sponsors!
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When her life collided with a high-profile murder trial, longtime true-crime devotee Stephanie Tinsley found an unexpected path into creative agency and advocacy. After a career in sales and private equity, everything shifted when her husband, attorney Mark Tinsley, was thrust into the spotlight during the Murdaugh murder trials. In this episode, she and Amy discuss the making of Everything They Missed, the inner resources she had to marshal to tell the story well, and why centering human dignity is her driving force in true-crime storytelling.

Images and more from Stephanie Tinsley on our website!

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.

Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes
SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers

Special thanks to our sponsors!
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Designer, craftsman, artist and educator, Norman Teague, grew up in Chicago absorbing the sounds, colors, textures and vibes of his “hood,” fancy cars, and Auntie Aretha’s painting. A highschool Drafting elective was his first real step into the design field, which he then traversed with aplomb through an MFA at SAIC, to the Venice Architecture Biennale, to MoMA, to the design team of the Obama Presidential Center. At the helm of his namesake design studio, he’s built a storied, critically acclaimed career, and a powerful legacy of challenging the design canon, cultural storytelling, and educating generations of future designers.

Images and more from Norman Teague on our website!

Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.

Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes
SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers

Special thanks to our sponsors!
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chief Creative Officer of Bruce Mau Design, Laura Stein grew up on Nun’s Island outside of Montreal, a near utopia where kids never had to cross the street. Her psychiatrist father and museum-involved mother cultivated curiosity about emotions, critical thinking, and the arts. A move to Texas in her teens resulted in quite a culture shock. Laura found an innate knack for peer reviews and analysis, which became a strength throughout the rest of her academic and professional career. Originally graduating with a degree in English, she returned to school to study art, where she found not only her community, but her band mates. From there, it was a wild ride - record signing (Sub Pop,) touring, and navigating all the ups and downs of being in a girl band in the ‘90s – the ultimate creative boot camp. Now in leadership at Bruce Mau Design, she’s deploying the wisdom garnered from all these experiences to build a culture focused on keeping possibility alive.

Images and more from Laura Stein on our website!

Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.

Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes
SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers

Special thanks to our sponsors!
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For over 40+ years, Mick De Giulio has been dedicating his talents to designing kitchens that sing. It all starts with listening, and the results are masterpieces of flow, proportion, beauty, utility and emotional resonance. A devotee of craft, he’s known for having an unusual command of detail and materials. He brings it all together in service of designing dynamic shared spaces that foster connection, care and magic moments. The author of two books, Kitchen Centric and Kitchen, with a third out in 2026, he is an unmatched leader in the field who also supports the industry and elevates the art of kitchen design by way of the Sub-Zero, Wolf and Cove Kitchen Design Contest.

Images and more from Mick De Giulio on our website!

Thanks to Sub-Zero Wolf and Cove for sponsoring this episode! Learn more about the Kitchen Design Contest and submit your application here: https://www.subzero-wolf.com/trade-resources/kitchen-design-contest

Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven.

SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app!
SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts
VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes
SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers

Special thanks to our sponsors!
Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.