RevOps FM

Justin and Lily reflect on their parallel journeys diving deep into AI throughout 2025. They discuss why most AI content misses the mark for operators and system builders working within corporate constraints, share lessons from building production AI tools, and explore what's next for bringing these capabilities into the enterprise.
Guest: Lily Luo — Systems & Operations Leader, Author of Applied AI for MOps Substack
Read more of Justin's thoughts on AI Builders: The operator's roadmap for AI in 2026
KEY TOPICS
The Gap in AI Content Most resources target researchers or GTM engineers focused on outbound automation. There's little guidance for operators dealing with cloud tools, security, and corporate complexity. That creates an opportunity to define best practices for this underserved audience.
2025 Project Highlights Lily built an "Analysis Dossier" tool that generates full account research reports at the click of a button. Justin replaced a vendor intelligence tool with a custom system using Retool and a conversational agent.
Lessons Learned Start with tightly scoped AI steps in linear workflows for reliability. Pre-process insights asynchronously rather than relying on real-time agent calculations. Match tools to use cases. Failures teach more than successes.
Atlas: Lily's Autonomous Agent Runs on Google Cloud and wakes every 4 hours to research and progress projects. Uses a three-layer memory architecture: identity, temporal journal, and knowledge graph. Can push its own code and interact with other agents.
2026 Outlook Focus on scalability, reduced hallucination, and team enablement. Build infrastructure that unlocks flexible, ad-hoc use cases. Bridge the gap between AI capabilities and enterprise readiness.
The Human Side Working closely with AI changes how you think. Boundaries matter—don't let AI become a crutch.
RESOURCES
Applied AI for MOps — Lily's Substack
AI Builders Blog — Justin's Substack
Tools mentioned: Claude Code, Gemini, ChatGPT, Zapier, Retool, Dust, Azure AI Foundry, Letta, VS Code

ONE TIP FOR GETTING STARTED
Pick a real pain point. Start with low-code tools you already know. Test relentlessly. Expect to fail—and learn from it.

SEO used to be the ultimate growth lever—offering massive “free” traffic to marketers who could outsmart the algorithm. But in 2025, it's a different game.
In this episode, I’m joined by Gaetano DiNardi—an SEO strategist with deep experience across B2B SaaS—to unpack how AI is reshaping the search landscape.
We discuss:
The SEO playbook for 2025
How zero-click search is impacting real-world traffic
Why brand is actually a competitive moat for SEO
How to appear in AI search previews and LLM recommendations
When a startup should consider SEO
How to optimize content for the top, middle, and bottom of the funnel

Whether you’re running SEO for an enterprise brand or figuring out your growth strategy as a founder, this conversation will help you recalibrate your approach to search in the age of AI.
About Today's Guest
Gaetano DiNardi is an SEO expert and principal consultant at Marketing Advice.
He’s spent over a decade in B2B marketing, helping 50+ SaaS companies drive growth and demand. He’s battled in some of the most competitive trenches out there—categories like identity theft, business VoIP, employee monitoring, insider threat detection, LMS software, and more.
You can find him sharing lessons from the field on LinkedIn and Substack.
Key Topics
[00:00] - Introduction
[01:24] - Evolution of search over the past 10 years
[04:09] - Impact of brand on rankings
[05:36] - Did SEO degrade search quality?
[11:30] - Impact of zero-click results
[20:28] - How to get recommended in AI preview
[34:15] - When should a startup focus on SEO?
[41:39] - SEO for TOFU, MOFU, and BOFU

Resource Links
Marketing Advice
Marketing Advice Substack
Scrunch AI - Brand monitoring for AI search
What is Brand Authority and How Is It Calculated? - Moz


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AI agents are everywhere in conversation right now—but what actually makes them work? It’s not just slapping a large language model into a workflow and calling it a day. Under the hood, real agentic systems operate differently. They make decisions. They adapt. They break out of rigid if-this-then-that logic and enter something closer to human judgment.
In this episode, I talk with Daniel Vassilev, co-founder of Relevance AI, a platform purpose-built for building and deploying true agents. We dig deep into how agentic systems are structured—from core instructions to tool orchestration—and how that foundation changes what’s possible. Daniel explains the difference between automation and autonomy in clear, practical terms that any builder, founder, or operator can understand.
We also explore real-world use cases: where agents shine today, where they fall short, and how teams are already using them to 10x output without ballooning headcount. Whether you’re dabbling in LLM workflows or ready to rethink how your company works entirely, this conversation will level up your mental model.
If you’ve been wondering where the hype ends and the real architecture begins—this is the episode.
About Today's Guest
Daniel Vassilev is Co-Founder and Co-CEO of Relevance AI, a platform to develop commercial-grade multi-agent systems to power your business. With a background in software engineering, he previously created, grew and monetised two apps to a combined 7 million users, reaching #1 on the App Store top free.
Key Topics
[00:00] - Introduction
[01:31] - Defining agentic AI
[03:28] - AI in linear workflows vs. agentic systems
[08:19] - How agents work under the hood
[11:24] - Always-on agents
[13:43] - Selecting the right tasks for agentic AI
[17:42] - Copilot vs. Autopilot
[22:44] - Are there tasks we should never delegate to AI?
[25:03] - Coolest use cases
[34:30] - Agent memory and continual improvement
[37:55] - Compounding effect of agent teams
[41:39] - Relevance the company and platform

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Disclosure: I am using an affiliate link for Relevance AI, which means I earn a small bonus if you sign up through my content.

Not many people make it to VP of Marketing Operations—Kimi Corrigan has done it twice. In this episode, she shares her journey from marketing coordinator to leading marketing ops at companies like Duo Security, Cisco, Wiz, Expel, and DataRobot. We dive into what it really takes to reach VP level, how to position yourself for leadership, and why marketing ops pros should start asking for that title.
Kimi also gets real about the challenges of scaling teams, navigating internal politics, and balancing the tactical with the strategic. We talk about how marketing ops has evolved, the role of data and strategy, and why building strong cross-functional relationships is just as important as knowing your way around a tech stack.
If you're a marketing ops pro wondering what’s next in your career—or how to level up—this one’s for you.
About Today's Guest
With over 19 years in marketing operations and leadership, Kimi Corrigan thrives on optimizing marketing strategies for efficiency and effectiveness.
Kimi has held marketing ops leadershiop roles at Duo Security, Cisco, Wiz, Expel, and DataRobot.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimicorrigan/
Key Topics
[00:53] - How Kimi got started in marketing operations
[03:04] - Early-generation marketing automation
[05:54] - How you know if MOPS is working well
[10:11] - Navigating people and organizational problems
[16:51] - Becoming a VP Marketing Ops
[22:31] - Operations and strategy
[33:47] - Composable stacks vs. suites
[37:51] - MOPS team structure
[39:50] - Planning cycle

Resource Links


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Earlier this month, Scott Brinker and co-author Frans Riemersma released their latest report: Martech for 2025.
It’s 108 pages of dense insights on where Martech is headed—and as you might imagine, it’s largely focused on the core ways AI is re-shaping our discipline.
For nearly 15 years, Scott has chronicled the rise of martech as one of its foremost thought leaders, and it was my pleasure to sit down with him to dig into the conclusions.
Thanks to Our Sponsor
Many thanks to the sponsor of this episode - Knak.
If you don't know them (you should), Knak is an amazing email and landing page builder that integrates directly with your marketing automation platform.
You set the brand guidelines and then give your users a building experience that’s slick, modern and beautiful. When they’re done, everything goes to your MAP at the push of a button.
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About Today's Guest
Scott Brinker is VP Platform Ecosystem at HubSpot and previously the co-founder and CTO of ion interactive, a SaaS company that pioneered interactive content for global enterprises and was acquired in 2017.
Since 2008, he’s also run the Chief Marketing Technologist blog, chiefmartec.com, with over 50,000 readers, and creator of the Marketing Technology Landscape, mapping the growth of the marketing technology industry from a few hundred vendors to over 14,000.
He wrote the best-selling book "Hacking Marketing," published by Wiley in 2016, and co-authored of the article "The Rise of the Chief Marketing Technologist" published in Harvard Business Review. He is a frequent keynote speaker at conferences around the world on topics of marketing technology and agile marketing.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sjbrinker/
Key Topics
[01:26] - Main take-aways from the report
[03:31] - How AI can lead to more differentiated marketing
[06:07] - Efficiency vs. effectiveness from using AI
[11:33] - AI and the Hype Cycle
[15:28] - Innovator’s Dilemma and compressed innovation
[17:16] - Segments of AI innovation
[21:06] - Innovation challenges fo r legacy incumbents
[22:56] - Last-mile issues with AI feature quality
[29:10] - AI agents
[40:54] - Orchestration layer

Resource Links
Martech for 2025


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