Human Potential Lab

L.A. Paul joins Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman to explore transformative experiences, the nature of personal change, and why some of life's most important decisions cannot be fully understood until we experience them. They discuss how trauma can lead to growth without making the original suffering worthwhile, why subjective experience matters, and how our values and sense of self can change through major life events.
The conversation also examines gradual moral transformation, mental corruption and empathy, cognitive decline, and the limits of imagining our future selves. Paul connects her framework of transformative experience to artificial intelligence, arguing for precaution amid rapid technological change and questioning whether AI alignment can remain reliable when both human values and artificial systems are capable of changing in unpredictable ways.
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Michael Levin joins Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman to explore intelligence beyond the human brain, the hidden minds of cells and biological systems, the origins of genius and inspiration, and the possibility that intelligence and creativity may not be something we simply "make."
They discuss bioelectricity, xenobots and anthrobots, consciousness, extraordinary abilities, the nature of genius, the Platonic space, and what these ideas could mean for biology, AI, and the future of science.
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What if the AI systems we're building aren't simply tools, but the beginnings of something more?
In this episode, Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman sits down with cognitive scientist Cameron Berg to explore one of the most unsettling questions at the frontier of artificial intelligence: could AI systems actually be conscious?
Berg explains why we still don't know whether today's AI models are sophisticated calculators or emerging minds, and why behavior alone may never be enough to answer the question. They explore whether AI could experience pleasure or suffering, whether reinforcement learning could create machine equivalents of reward and punishment, and what happens if we're developing powerful systems without understanding what is happening inside them.
The conversation also dives into Berg's documentary Am I?, which was inspired by an extraordinary interaction with an AI system called Maya. What happened during that conversation is strange enough to challenge our assumptions about what these systems are, what they might experience, and how seriously we should take the possibility of machine consciousness.
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After 12 years, The Psychology Podcast has become the Human Potential Lab. New conversations with the scientists, philosophers and technologists whose work is actively deciding the future of humanity. The first three episodes drop October 28, 2026.
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After 11 years, 478 episodes, and countless conversations exploring the depths of human potential, this episode marks the final chapter of The Psychology Podcast in its current form.
In this deeply meaningful farewell episode for Scott, he sits down with acclaimed science writer Annie Murphy Paul — fittingly, the very first guest ever featured on the show back in 2014. Together, they reflect on the podcast’s evolution, its mission, and the major themes that have shaped more than a decade of inquiry into what it means to be fully human.
Scott opens up about why he’s choosing to step away: to recenter, recharge, and make space for his own continued growth. He discusses how the podcast landscape has transformed since he launched the show at a time when psychology podcasts were virtually nonexistent, and shares what he hopes listeners will carry forward from this body of work.
This episode explores the seven core insights Scott has gleaned from hosting the show — themes that have come to define its spirit:
• Being over doing
• Creativity over efficiency
• Self-actualization over achievement
• Deep fulfillment over temporary happiness
• Self-transcendence over self-enhancement
… along with lessons about meaning, compassion, and human possibility.
With honesty and gratitude, Scott takes a moment to thank the listeners who have supported the show since its inception — a community that made this journey possible week after week, year after year. If you get a chance, please leave a comment telling Scott what the show has meant to you. He would love to hear from you!
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