Bitcoin’s future may not follow the familiar boom-and-bust cycles investors expect. In this episode, Jesse Myers explains why the market structure is shifting, the importance of positioning yourself to survive catastrophic drawdowns, and how treasury companies are reshaping investor psychology. We cover the rise of amplified bitcoin exposure, the surprising strength of gold, and what total global wealth trends reveal about bitcoin’s trajectory. Jesse also unpacks the key KPI for treasury companies, why sentiment drives massive swings in premiums, and what the world will find most shocking about bitcoin adoption in the decade ahead.Timestamps:0:00 - Intro0:32 - Are bitcoin cycles changing forever3:18 - Why halvings may matter less in a maturing market5:30 - Could treasury companies drive parabolic bitcoin bull runs7:05 - Why Saylor moved from debt to perpetual preferreds9:34 - Investor backlash and misunderstanding of strategy11:13 - How investor bases shift as bitcoin treasury companies grow14:14 - Amplified volatility in bitcoin treasury companies17:26 - What today’s low bitcoin volatility signals20:45 - Gold’s surge and what it means for bitcoin22:40 - Total global wealth and bitcoin’s share of it31:18 - Where global wealth is flowing today32:17 - What is bitcoin’s long-term growth rate36:07 - Deflation and craftsmanship in a bitcoin standard40:03 - The key KPI for bitcoin treasury companies55:22 - What will surprise everyone about bitcoin in 10 years59:35 - Where to learn more about Jesse Myers
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Filtering out the noise in bitcoin with Pierre Rochard
Bitcoin is infiltrating the heart of global finance, with index funds on the verge of being forced to hold it. In this episode, Pierre Rochard breaks down the rise of bitcoin treasury companies, why Strategy’s playbook is so powerful, and how S&P 500 inclusion could accelerate adoption worldwide. We explore the misunderstood security budget debate, the reality of miner incentives, and why corporate balance sheets are fueling a long-term speculative attack.Timestamps:0:00 - Intro0:26 - Is the bitcoin treasury company space too crowded2:12 - How much do companies influence mNAV4:16 - Can Strategy own too much bitcoin7:29 - Why haven’t other giants copied Saylor’s playbook10:09 - Why apple and amazon won’t go all in on bitcoin10:52 - The truth about bitcoin’s security budget16:25 - Why low transaction fees are actually good18:49 - Bitcoin’s militia model for security20:09 - Why most bitcoiners misunderstand the fee market23:13 - Core vs Knots debate explained26:20 - What happens if miners filter transactions29:36 - Why filtering doesn’t stop censorship resistance33:39 - The real problem with mining centralization35:26 - Will strategy be added to the S&P 50037:42 - Why S&P inclusion would be massive for bitcoin40:21 - Financial exposure vs holding your own keys45:16 - Should bitcoiners fear a 6102 seizure48:24 - Is the speculative attack finally here?52:15 - Why we may be past the four year cycles54:05 - Pierre’s bitcoin bond company and podcast updates55:27 - Closing thoughts
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From Deloitte to Semler Scientific: Nick Colletta on Bitcoin Treasuries
What if corporations began treating bitcoin as their benchmark for capital allocation? In this episode, Nick Colletta, Treasurer at Semler Scientific, shares his journey from Deloitte Digital Assets to leading one of the first public bitcoin treasury companies, explaining why bitcoin per share is the key metric, how to manage volatility, and why security is paramount. He also discusses the early stage of corporate adoption, future treasury innovations, and his advice for professionals looking to build a career in bitcoin.Timestamps:0:00 - Nick’s background in accounting and Deloitte digital assets2:38 - Inside Deloitte’s crypto work and becoming bitcoin only5:02 - Why Nick joined Semler Scientific as treasurer5:40 - First encounter with bitcoin and early lessons7:07 - Why bitcoin is the best money8:37 - Why bitcoin matters for corporations10:20 - How bitcoin fortifies corporate balance sheets11:25 - Explaining Semler’s bitcoin treasury strategy12:56 - Key metrics for evaluating bitcoin treasury companies15:03 - Intelligent leverage and long duration financing16:08 - How to think about NAV premiums17:05 - Bitcoin as the hurdle rate for capital allocation18:32 - How early we are in bitcoin corporate adoption19:38 - What really drives bitcoin adoption22:12 - Tools for managing a bitcoin treasury23:36 - Saylor’s playbook and future treasury innovations25:15 - How Semler manages bitcoin’s volatility28:16 - Why securing bitcoin is the top priority30:07 - Proof of reserves, audits, and bitcoin treasuries32:17 - Bitcoin’s path: from individuals to corporations to governments33:21 - Is Wall Street co-opting bitcoin, or vice versa?35:05 - Why Saylor shares his entire strategy with competitors37:23 - Why more companies haven’t copied Saylor yet38:09 - The future of bitcoin treasury companies39:09 - Will bitcoin ever see another brutal bear market?40:35 - Is the bull market over?40:58 - What excites Nick most about the future42:43 - Advice for young professionals entering the bitcoin industry44:05 - Closing thoughts and where to follow Nick
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Bitcoin treasury stocks and mNAV guidance with Adrian Morris
When market sentiment turns sour even as bitcoin trades above $100k, how should investors think about the future of bitcoin treasury companies? In this episode, we sit down with Adrian Morris to unpack the dynamics behind mNAV guidance, ATM usage, and the broader psychology shaping these equities.Timestamps:0:00 - Intro0:50 - Bitcoin hits new all time high, sentiment turns bearish2:23 - Why the market is still strong above $100k3:40 - Bitcoin treasuries as leveraged plays4:21 - Strategy’s mNAV guidance explained6:09 - Did Strategy walk back its guidance?10:27 - Why issuing mNAV guidance was a mistake13:22 - The danger of listening to Twitter noise15:24 - Does this misstep change the long term thesis?18:05 - Strategy as one of the best performing stocks of the decade19:25 - Cooperative dynamics of Bitcoin treasury companies21:21 - Adversarial investors and market psychology23:01 - Bitcoin as signal, treasury companies as amplitude26:25 - How to think about high versus low mNAV multiples29:30 - Is the ATM really driving share price down?33:00 - How management will likely use the ATM going forward35:27 - What could reverse market sentiment38:47 - Why other Bitcoin treasuries may copy preferred equity43:42 - Risks of paying preferred dividends in a bear market47:03 - Strategy’s survival through past bear markets50:23 - Why preferred equity may strengthen resilience51:04 - The key KPI for Bitcoin treasury companies53:51 - Long term outlook for Bitcoin and treasury companies59:19 - Closing thoughts and where to follow Adrian
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Inside MSTR’s bitcoin playbook with CJ
What if a company could turn Wall Street’s incentives toward accelerating bitcoin adoption? In this episode, we sit down with CJ from Strategy’s bitcoin treasury team to break down how the world’s largest bitcoin treasury company is innovating in capital markets. CJ shares his path from Harvard Business School to Strategy, the key KPI that matters most for bitcoin treasury companies, and why outperforming bitcoin over the long term is the true benchmark.Timestamps:0:00 - Intro0:31 - Harvard to Strategy: CJ’s bitcoin treasury role2:24 - The most important KPI for bitcoin treasury companies5:14 - Why outperforming bitcoin is the ultimate benchmark6:59 - Short-term price dislocations vs long-term performance9:24 - Saylor’s forever time horizon11:00 - Why volatility and volume matter for capital markets strategy13:08 - The ideal bitcoin strategy for emerging treasury companies16:04 - Why preferred equity is replacing convertible notes19:03 - How Strategy designs its preferred equity products21:02 - Should other companies copy Strategy’s preferred equity playbook?23:17 - How leverage supports accretive dilution26:58 - Who’s buying Strategy’s preferred equity products?30:28 - The “iPhone moment” for bitcoin-backed securities33:22 - How Strategy manages price stability for preferred equity35:57 - Could stablecoin issuers adopt bitcoin-backed preferred equity?38:03 - Credit amplification vs “speculative attack”40:41 - Harvard’s $100M bitcoin buy44:19 - Bitcoin’s terminal growth rate and the S&P 50047:07 - Why bitcoin treasury companies trade at a NAV premium49:18 - Strategy’s new mNAV issuance guidance53:39 - The digital transformation of investor relations56:17 - Why bitcoin is now Wall Street’s biggest fee generator58:51 - Closing thoughts and where to find CJ
Sobre The Mustard Seed—a bitcoin and long-term thinking podcast
After finishing graduate school, I left my first job as a technology consultant at Ernst & Young to work full-time in bitcoin. One of the most valuable things I did early on was host a bitcoin podcast. It allowed me to learn directly from some of the most intelligent minds in the space and build lasting relationships.
The podcast is my way of staying connected to the most thoughtful people in bitcoin. It helps me better understand how capital is flowing into bitcoin and how the smartest leaders are positioning themselves as bitcoin continues to reshape global capital markets.
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