Choose the Hard Way

Four weeks after CAR-T gene therapy for diffuse large B-cell lymphoma, Molly and I went back to Dana-Farber Cancer Institute for the PET scan that would show whether it worked. Three months earlier, my first-line treatment had failed. This is what I found out when the results came back.
—
Guiding the conversation is my friend Shannon Jones, the titan of entrepreneurship, leadership development, and finance. Shannon teaches Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition at the University of Colorado Boulder's Leeds School of Business, and writes the TranscendenCEO newsletter.
Thank you to everyone in this community who has reached out to provide positivity, prayers, encouragement, and support during this experience.
—
My consultancy, One Real Voice, helps industry leaders thrive in the unscripted, long-form conversations internal & external where reputations are built and business is won, like podcasts, town halls, investor meetings, fireside chats, and more. When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to hello@onerealvoice.com.
—
To support this work, become a paid subscriber to the Choose the Hard Way Substack at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__.
—
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at __https://www.laufcycles.com__.
—
Thank you to Sunlighten infrared saunas for helping make it possible for my family to have an mPulse sauna. Being able to relax and recover in our mPulse sauna when possible between treatments is healing and feels like a luxury. I'm grateful for your support.
Sunlighten: __https://www.sunlighten.com/__
—
Thank you to Peloton of "come on Peloton, you got this" fame for following my cancer experience and surprising me with a Peloton Tread. Being able to go to the garage and move is huge for me, and Molly, especially on days when I'm too wiped to be able to take the dogs out. It's a next level treadmill and it takes me places.
Peloton: __https://www.onepeloton.com/__
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/__
—
One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__
—
Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__
—
LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__
—
Shannon Jones's TranscendenCEO newsletter: __https://transcendenceo.substack.com/__
—
Follow Shannon Jones on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/wshannonjones/__
--
CHOOSE THE HARD WAY™ and associated branding are trademarks of Big Truck LLC. All rights reserved. Unauthorized use of these marks in connection with goods or services in a manner likely to cause confusion as to source, sponsorship, or affiliation is prohibited.

As I go through my cancer experience, I can't wait to get back to riding my bike, and to doing intervals. Today my VO2max is 47. Before I got sick, it was 67. I put in a lot of hard work as part of a well-balanced training program to get there.
—
People frequently ask me about training for endurance sports, and one of the most common questions I've gotten in the last year is how to incorporate VO2max intervals into training. To find out, I did something different: a case study episode with Shannon Jones and Dr. Stephen Seiler.
—
Dr. Seiler is the world's leading researcher, expert, and practitioner on this topic. He is the researcher who identified and popularized the polarized training method used by Tour de France champions, Ironman champions, Olympic gold medalists, and everyday athletes. He also originated the research on ventilatory thresholds, which is now the new new thing inside World Tour cycling for delineating training zones. Stephen joined me on a previous episode for a broader conversation about training for endurance sports.
—
Shannon has joined me as a co-host on the Better Lab and I Have Cancer episodes. When he reached out with questions about VO2max training, he had already started doing 4 x 4s, one of the hardest VO2max workouts you can possibly do, bar none. I said I know a guy you might want to talk to.
—
Here we are. Shannon shares how, why, and what he started doing. I share what has worked for me. Then Seiler tells us what actually makes sense.
—
It will be no fun, forever. You get better, it gets harder, you get used to the feeling, but not really. Whether you win the Tour de France or are getting on a Peloton, when you do it right it's pretty awful.
—
Wherever you listen or watch Choose the Hard Way, please hit five stars. It helps more people find the show. The best way you can support this project is to become a paid subscriber to my newsletter at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/__
—
The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
—
That's why Andrew Vontz started __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won. When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to hello@onerealvoice.com.
—
This episode is brought to you by my partner Blockchain.com. They're your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. When you crypto, crypto with Blockchain.com: __https://www.blockchain.com__
—
Lauf bikes are elegant, fast and radically fun. When I gravel, I gravel with the Lauf Seigla: __https://www.laufcycles.com__
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/__
—
One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__
—
Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__
—
LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__
—
Shannon Jones's TranscendenCEO newsletter on leadership, finance, and human potential: __https://transcendenceo.substack.com__
—
Follow Dr. Stephen Seiler on X: __https://x.com/StephenSeiler__
—
Dr. Stephen Seiler on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-seiler-668202a/__

Andrew Vontz has been an endurance athlete for 38 years. In March doctors found a tumor running from his the cavity between his lungs up across his neck that had displaced his carotid artery and was crushing his trachea.
—
This is the cancer episode. Andrew is five months into treatment for diffuse large B-cell lymphoma. He has been through six rounds of chemo, a cytokine release storm, multiple hospitalizations, and in September will go to Dana Farber Cancer Institute for three weeks to get CAR T genetic therapy. He talks about how he discovered he had cancer, living with uncertainty, going through chemo, what thirty-eight years of endurance sport did and did not prepare him for, and how listening to his body has guided his cancer experience.
—
Guiding the conversation is the titan of entrepreneurship, leadership development, and finance Shannon Jones, who teaches Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition at the University of Colorado Boulder's Leeds School of Business, writes the TranscendenCEO newsletter, and was a two-sport Division I athlete. Shannon joined Andrew on a previous episode to talk about building and winding down The Better Lab.
—
Thank you to everyone in this community who has reached out to provide positivity, prayers, encouragement, and support during this experience.
—
Recorded August 21, 2026, three days after Andrew's sixth round of chemo.
—
The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
That's why Andrew Vontz started __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won.
—
When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to hello@onerealvoice.com.
—
To support this work, become a paid subscriber to the Choose the Hard Way Substack at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__.
—
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at __https://www.laufcycles.com__.
—
Thank you to Sunlighten infrared saunas for helping make it possible for my family to have an mPulse sauna. Being able to relax and recover in our mPulse sauna when possible between treatments is healing and feels like a luxury. I'm grateful for your support.
Sunlighten: __https://www.sunlighten.com/__
—
Thank you to Peloton of "come on Peloton, you got this" fame for following my cancer experience and surprising me with a Peloton Tread. Being able to go to the garage and move is huge for me, and Molly, especially on days when I'm too wiped to be able to take the dogs out. It's a next level treadmill and it takes me places.
Peloton: __https://www.onepeloton.com/__
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/__
—
One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__
—
Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__
—
LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__
—
Shannon Jones's TranscendenCEO newsletter: __https://transcendenceo.substack.com/__
—
Follow Shannon Jones on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/wshannonjones/__
-

Choose the Hard Way is the show about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. 
—
One of my favorite comedians is Johnny Hilbrant Partridge, aka The PE Guy. His comedy operates at the intersection of private equity, hyper-conspicuous consumption, and radical insecurity. He is hilarious, and if you don't know his work, you soon will.
—
If you want to laugh go to @johnnyhilbrant, if you want to know who Johnny is, you're in the right place. This conversation is about the decade-plus Johnny spent working to become a comedy pro that preceded him blowing up as The PE Guy. We talk about the way life events and the sudden death of his twin sister shaped who he is, what he makes, where he is headed, and more.
—
A quick personal update. After three rounds of chemo, my cancer treatment took an unexpected turn last week. A PET scan showed we were successfully killing cancer. But my doctors told me it wasn't killing cancer fast enough to cure me. I'm going back to the Dana Farber Cancer Institute for another biopsy later this week and when we get those results back, they'll figure out what my new course of treatment will be. —
I'm confident we will cure it, and being in this limbo is scary, for me, and for my family.  Whatever the road ahead is, we will get to cured, and I thank you for all of your love and support.
—
Please hit five stars and subscribe to Choose the Hard Way everywhere you listen.
—
The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
—
That's why Andrew Vontz started __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won.
—
When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to hello@onerealvoice.com.
—
 
To support this work, become a paid subscriber to the Choose the Hard Way Substack at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__.
—
 
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
 
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at __https://www.laufcycles.com__.
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/__
—
One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com/__
—
Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__
—
LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__
—
Follow Johnny Hilbrant Partridge: __https://www.instagram.com/johnnyhilbrant__
—
Johnny Hilbrant Partridge on TikTok: __https://www.tiktok.com/@johnnyhilbrant__
—
Due to My Role: __https://www.duetomyrole.com__
—

Dr. Stephen Seiler coined the term polarized training and systematized the 80/20 method used by Tadej Pogacar, Kristian Blummenfelt, and the world's top endurance athletes. 
—


From the New York Times to the podcasts of Andrew Huberman, Peter Attia, and Rhonda Patrick, Dr. Seiler's polarized training method and zone 2 and vo2 max protocols have become an often misinterpreted cultural obsession.

—

I'm on the Fast Talk Labs advisory board with Stephen and I thought it would be fun to hear directly from Stephen how he thinks about polarized training, its application for masters athletes versus World Tour riders Pog, to hear more about Stephen's emergent research into the relationship between breathing, training zones, and its application in real life.
—
This episode was recorded before I learned I had cancer. I just completed round two of chemo for b-cell lymphoma. Thanks to everyone for your support and positivity as I move towards being cured. I'm sharing about my experience @hardwaypod and on the Choose the Hard Way substack, and I'll be doing an episode about it soon as well.

—

A heads up, part 2 of this interview coming soon. I often have people who haven't been racing bikes and running their entire life reach out to me who have heard something Huberman said or read Attia's book Outlive asking for advice about how to do zone 2 and vo2 max workouts, aka polarized training.

—

For part 2, I invite Seiler and one of these athletes on the show to do a live case study and analysis.
—
Please hit five stars and subscribe to Choose the Hard Way everywhere you listen.

—

To support this work, become a paid subscriber to the Choose the Hard Way substack, link @hardwaypod on Instagram, in the show notes, and you can go direct at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__.

—

That's where I share my thoughts about these episodes, my cancer journey, family, bike racing, zen, and life.

—

With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.

—

Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at __https://www.laufcycles.com__.

—

The media landscape has changed and senior leaders must excel in unscripted forums like podcasts, fireside chats, and town halls. I started my consultancy One Real Voice at __https://www.onerealvoice.com__ to help industry leaders thrive in these open-ended and dynamic formats where reputations are built and business is won. When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to hello@onerealvoice.com.

—

Stay tuned for part 2 coming soon.

—

Andrew Vontz on Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__

—

Andrew Vontz on Substack: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__

—

Andrew Vontz on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__

—

One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com__

—

Dr. Stephen Seiler on X: __https://x.com/StephenSeiler__

—

Dr. Stephen Seiler on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-seiler-668202a/__