Choose the Hard Way

Dr. Stephen Seiler coined the term polarized training and systematized the 80/20 method used by Tadej Pogacar, Kristian Blummenfelt, and the world's top endurance athletes. 
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From the New York Times to the podcasts of Andrew Huberman, Peter Attia, and Rhonda Patrick, Dr. Seiler's polarized training method and zone 2 and vo2 max protocols have become an often misinterpreted cultural obsession.

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I'm on the Fast Talk Labs advisory board with Stephen and I thought it would be fun to hear directly from Stephen how he thinks about polarized training, its application for masters athletes versus World Tour riders Pog, to hear more about Stephen's emergent research into the relationship between breathing, training zones, and its application in real life.
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This episode was recorded before I learned I had cancer. I just completed round two of chemo for b-cell lymphoma. Thanks to everyone for your support and positivity as I move towards being cured. I'm sharing about my experience @hardwaypod and on the Choose the Hard Way substack, and I'll be doing an episode about it soon as well.

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A heads up, part 2 of this interview coming soon. I often have people who haven't been racing bikes and running their entire life reach out to me who have heard something Huberman said or read Attia's book Outlive asking for advice about how to do zone 2 and vo2 max workouts, aka polarized training.

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For part 2, I invite Seiler and one of these athletes on the show to do a live case study and analysis.
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Please hit five stars and subscribe to Choose the Hard Way everywhere you listen.

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To support this work, become a paid subscriber to the Choose the Hard Way substack, link @hardwaypod on Instagram, in the show notes, and you can go direct at __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__.

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That's where I share my thoughts about these episodes, my cancer journey, family, bike racing, zen, and life.

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With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.

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Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at __https://www.laufcycles.com__.

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The media landscape has changed and senior leaders must excel in unscripted forums like podcasts, fireside chats, and town halls. I started my consultancy One Real Voice at __https://www.onerealvoice.com__ to help industry leaders thrive in these open-ended and dynamic formats where reputations are built and business is won. When you're ready to be great, DM __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__ or reach out to [email protected].

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Stay tuned for part 2 coming soon.

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Andrew Vontz on Instagram: __https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod__

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Andrew Vontz on Substack: __https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com__

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Andrew Vontz on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/__

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One Real Voice: __https://www.onerealvoice.com__

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Dr. Stephen Seiler on X: __https://x.com/StephenSeiler__

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Dr. Stephen Seiler on LinkedIn: __https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-seiler-668202a/__

Graham Platner is a Marine Corps and Army infantry veteran with combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and a candidate for US Senate in Maine. He is also a lifelong student of fitness and strength whose training evolved from grunt-era running and calisthenics to CrossFit, Rob Shaul's Mountain Tactical programming, and Jim Wendler's 5-3-1.
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He joins Andrew Vontz & Jonathan Kaplan on United States of Sweat p/b Choose the Hard Way to talk combat fitness, the multi-hour firefight his squad survived on zero water because everybody was fit, and what true strength actually looks like.
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Graham has seen real strength under fire. What he sees in Hegseth, RFK Jr. and Elon Musk is masculine insecurity with access to power, and the difference between power OVER people and power WITH them.
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Andrew joined live from the cancer floor at Maine Health Hospital in Portland, Maine, three days into a five-day chemo drip. Go to https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/ or @hardwaypod on Instagram for a full health update. Thank you for all of the positivity and support. Please keep it coming.
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United States of Sweat is the series where politicians and policymakers join us to share stories about fitness, health, and the sports they love. It's part of Choose the Hard Way, the show about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. 
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Please hit subscribe & give this show a 5-star rating wherever you listen or watch.
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The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
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That's why Andrew Vontz started https://www.onerealvoice.com/ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won.
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When you're ready to be great, DM https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod or reach out to [email protected].
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Jonathan Kaplan is the founder of WRITE CADENCE STRATEGIES, helping individuals and organizations navigate Washington, shape policy and manage reputational risk. He also writes RIDING WITH, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business and politics. Find that at ridingwithkaplan.substack.com.
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To support Choose the Hard Way, please become a paid subscriber of https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/.
—
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at www.laufcycles.com.
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/
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One Real Voice - narrative, strategy and coaching for podcasts and high-stakes conversations: http://www.onerealvoice.com
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Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/
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Jonathan Kaplan's Riding With newsletter: https://ridingwithkaplan.substack.com/
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Jonathan Kaplan Instagram: http://instagram.com/jonny99kaplan
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Follow Graham Platner's path to the US Senate on Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/grahamformaine

Spencer Martin of Beyond the Peloton / WEDU & Andrew Vontz breakdown Pog's big ride at the 2026 Tour of Flanders and share why their kids love riding the trainer.
 
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Andrew explains how he set up the Wahoo Kickr Core with Click & Cog so his kids could ride on Zwift + product feedback
 
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And we discuss the forthcoming Boulder vs. Hope junior cycling rivalry when Spencer gets his Kickr Core set up for the fam.


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Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun.


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Please hit 5 stars and subscribe wherever you listen + pass this episode along to a friend. And if you want to hear more of Spencer and Andrew discussing bike racing, subscribe to Beyond the Peloton. 
 
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With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at www.laufcycles.com.
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JOIN US:
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/
 
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Spencer Martin's Beyond the Peloton newsletter: https://beyondthepeloton.substack.com/
 
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Beyond the Peloton pod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-peloton-podcast/id1524689002
https://open.spotify.com/show/38KNvwfP4y7ALpBBu1izsI?si=7492eed55a3a4026
 
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One Real Voice - narrative, strategy and coaching for podcasts & high-stakes conversations: http://www.onerealvoice.com
 
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Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod
 
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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/

Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz in conversation with Wukar Fit founder Art O'Connor, a strength coach for pro cyclists including World Champion Keegan Swenson, Sofia Villafane, Chase Wark, and athletes of all ages & ability levels working to be strong for life.

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Art is a former pro mountain bike racer and now races cold weather ultra-endurance fat bike events like the Iditarod Trail Invitational 350 and the Fat Pursuit 200k where he placed second. His philosophy is lift heavy, ride fast.

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As someone who primarily spends my winters in Maine trying to leave as often as possible to go somewhere warm to ride, Art's affinity for racing in below zero temps in the wilderness fascinates me.

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Art and I share an appreciation of functional movement and the importance of being durable enough to function in life, not just perform on the bike. 
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Art famously completed the Abandon Your Family 500 challenge and joined us for the AYF hot wash, find that episode in the archives. 
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Find Art on Instagram @wukarfit and his training programs are available there and at wukarfit.com through the train heroic app.
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To support Choose the Hard Way, please become a paid subscriber of https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/.
—
Scripted and robotic is out, real is in. The communication landscape has changed and yesterday's media training just doesn't work.
 
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That's why I started One Real Voice to provide the training and narrative development senior executives need to thrive in the unscripted, open-ended communication formats like town halls, fireside chats, and podcasts that are mission critical for their roles. 
 
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I limit the number of clients I work with to go deep, but if you're ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email [email protected].
—
When you're ready to be great, DM https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod or reach out to [email protected].
—
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at www.laufcycles.com.
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/
—
One Real Voice – narrative, strategy and coaching for podcasts and high-stakes conversations: http://www.onerealvoice.com
—
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/

Sharice Davids is a congresswoman from Kansas, a former White House fellow, a lawyer, and MMA fighter with 7 fights including two professional bouts. She joins Andrew Vontz & Jonathan Kaplan on United States of Sweat p/b Choose the Hard Way to share stories about training, fighting, and her hardest workout ever. 
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United States of Sweat is the series where politicians and policymakers join us to share stories about fitness, health, and the sports they love.
—
Please hit subscribe & give this show a 5-star rating wherever you listen or watch.

—


The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
—
That's why Andrew Vontz started https://www.onerealvoice.com/ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won.
—
Jonathan Kaplan is the founder of WRITE CADENCE STRATEGIES, helping individuals and organizations navigate Washington, shape policy and manage reputational risk. He also writes RIDING WITH, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business and politics. Find that at ridingwithkaplan.substack.com.

—
To support Choose the Hard Way, please become a paid subscriber of https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/.
—
The media landscape has changed. Scripted is out. Real is in. Being a great podcast guest or host and being able to operate in dynamic unscripted contexts isn't optional. It's now a mandatory skill for senior leaders and doing it well isn't easy.
—
That's why Andrew Vontz started https://www.onerealvoice.com/ to help industry leaders thrive on podcasts, panels and the internal and external high-stakes open-ended conversations where reputations are built and business is won.
—
When you're ready to be great, DM https://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod or reach out to [email protected].
—
With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, Blockchain.com is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today no experience required.
—
Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Check them out at www.laufcycles.com.
—
Andrew Vontz's Choose the Hard Way newsletter: https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/
—
One Real Voice – narrative, strategy and coaching for podcasts and high-stakes conversations: http://www.onerealvoice.com
—
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hardwaypod
—
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewvontz/
—
Jonathan Kaplan's Riding With newsletter: https://ridingwithkaplan.substack.com/
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Jonathan Kaplan Instagram: http://instagram.com/jonny99kaplan