When anxiety takes hold, one of the first casualties is our natural sense of wonder and openness to new experiences. In this episode of Disordered, lets explore how anxiety disorders systematically erode our curiosity about the world around us and our own capabilities.Drew and Josh discuss how anxiety creates a rigid, self-focused mindset that asks only "How will this make me feel?" rather than "What might I discover?" They examine how this shift from external curiosity to internal fixation becomes a prison that keeps us stuck in patterns of avoidance and safety-seeking behaviors.The hosts share practical strategies for rekindling curiosity as a pathway back to psychological flexibility, including:Asking "What would happen if..." instead of avoiding uncertaintyPracticing willful tolerance while fostering genuine interest in experiencesUsing curiosity about the recovery process itself as a therapeutic toolDistinguishing between helpful curiosity and anxious ruminationThrough inspiring listener stories, Drew and Josh demonstrate how curiosity can be gradually rebuilt, even during heightened anxiety states. They show how simple questions like "What just happened here?" and "What might I learn from this?" can begin to crack open the rigid thinking patterns that keep anxiety disorders alive.This episode offers hope that the natural human capacity for wonder and exploration doesn't disappear with anxiety—it simply needs gentle cultivation and practice to flourish again.---Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, visit our homepage and get on our mailing list.---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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39:12
Processing ... Or Anxious Thinking? (Episode 119)
When something shocking or difficult happens, we're often told we need to "process" our emotions. But what if that endless loop of replaying events in your mind isn't actually processing at all? In this episode, Drew and Josh explore the crucial difference between healthy emotional processing and anxious rumination that keeps us stuck.How to distinguish between genuine emotional processing and OCD/GAD-style ruminationWhy that "urgent" feeling to think through something repeatedly might be a red flagThe difference between being with your feelings versus chasing a particular feelingWhy real processing can't be forced or scheduled on demandHow to recognize when your mind is "hunting for problems to solve"Processing vs. Ruminating: Real processing involves experiencing emotions from multiple perspectives and naturally leads somewhere. Anxious thinking loops from a single anxious viewpoint, chasing certainty or relief that never comes.The Mirage Effect: Like chasing an oasis in the desert, compulsive thinking promises relief that always stays just out of reach.Beyond the Urgent: If thinking through something feels urgent or mandatory right now, it's likely anxiety rather than processing.Community Contributions In This Episode:Dental Victory (15:50): A listener shares how she conquered dental anxiety and gave herself full credit for the winDouble Challenge (29:15): Managing husband's travel anxiety while attending a family party - and having a panic attack but staying anywayPanic Attack Breakthrough (32:30): Learning to let panic attacks run their course instead of fleeing to safetyTimestamps02:00 - Listener question: When does processing become anxious looping?05:20 - Josh explains the mechanics of OCD triggers after shocking events09:15 - Drew on narrative therapy and finding meaning versus chasing feelings13:00 - The misuse of "doing mode" - when thinking becomes a compulsion18:30 - Why Craig the Critic might tell you to keep "processing"21:00 - Josh's personal example of organic grief processing26:10 - Signs of unprocessed emotions versus anxious rumination27:30 - Why urgency is often a sign it's anxiety, not processingTrue emotional processing happens organically and involves being with difficult feelings without trying to fix them. When "processing" feels urgent, repetitive, or like chasing relief, it's likely anxious thinking in disguise. The goal isn't to process everything immediately, but to allow natural emotional experiences while living your life.---Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, visit our homepage and get on our mailing list.---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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37:23
Healing in Anxiety Disorders (Episode 118)
In this episode of Disordered, the guys tackle one of the most misunderstood concepts in anxiety recovery: healing. Sparked by a listener question about balancing relationships with anxiety recovery work, the hosts dive deep into what healing anxiety really means - and what it doesn't.The Problem with "Healing" Language Drew and Josh explore how the word "healing" can be problematic in anxiety recovery, often implying that people are broken and need fixing. They discuss how healing anxiety culture can keep people trapped in endless cycles of inward focus and compulsive self-improvement.Real vs. Imaginary Healing There is a difference between meaningful healing (like processing grief or trauma) versus the endless pursuit of healing anxiety symptoms. They emphasize that anxiety disorders often require learning and skill development rather than traditional healing approaches.Living vs. Healing A central theme emerges: in anxiety recovery, we don't heal to live - we live to heal. The hosts challenge the notion that extensive inner work must precede living your life, suggesting that engaging in meaningful activities IS the recovery process.Timestamps:4:30 - Why no one gets to define healing for you8:00 - The "resource gathering" compulsion trap13:40 - How healing language can keep you stuck16:00 - The dangers of AI-driven anxiety advice21:40 - When healing actually makes sense in therapy26:30 - Why being "already healed" might be the answer29:00 - The never-ending healing journey problem33:00 - Self-development vs. living your lifeThe hosts suggest that many people struggling with anxiety may already be "healed" - they're simply learning to navigate life without anxiety being center stage. Rather than endless healing pursuits, recovery often involves doing less inner work and more actual living. The episode challenges popular wellness narratives while maintaining hope for genuine recovery through practical, reality-based approaches.---Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, visit our homepage and get on our mailing list.---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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44:09
Getting Out Of An Anxious Head (Episode 117)
Ever feel trapped in cycles of rumination, overthinking, and constant mental chatter about your anxiety? In this episode, Drew and Josh tackle the challenging question of how to "get out of your own head" without turning it into another exhausting battle.Starting with a thoughtful question from a listener who has built an impressive life despite ongoing anxiety and DPDR but still struggles with constant internal focus, the hosts explore why simply trying to stop thinking doesn't work and what actually does.Key topics covered include:Why "getting out of your head" doesn't mean eliminating anxious thoughtsThe difference between coexisting with thoughts versus fighting themHow to make anxiety the "least interesting thing in the room"Understanding when overthinking becomes a compulsion rather than helpful problem-solvingPractical strategies for redirecting attention while allowing difficult feelingsThe role of willful tolerance in breaking rumination cyclesThe episode features inspiring "did it anyway" stories from listeners conquering agoraphobia with solo travel and managing postpartum OCD intrusive thoughts during daily caregiving tasks.Drew and Josh also address the tricky balance between attention redirection techniques and emotional avoidance, offering guidance for those working with metacognitive therapy approaches.Key Timestamps:[02:30] - Listener question about staying out of your own head[07:30] - Josh's detailed narrative of what being "in your head" actually sounds like[12:50] - Making anxiety the least interesting thing in the room[15:50] - The attention "flashlight" metaphor and experimentation approach[17:00] - Josh's YouTube banner analogy for intrusive thoughts[18:40] - Addressing GAD and the belief that thinking is always helpful[25:00] - Powerful "did it anyway" story about postpartum OCD[29:00] - The role of distraction and attention flexibility[33:40] - Listener question about balancing allowing feelings vs. attention redirectionThis episode emphasizes that recovery isn't about achieving a thought-free mind, but rather developing a healthier relationship with your internal experience while engaging meaningfully with your life.---------Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, visit our homepage and get on our mailing list.---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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37:38
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37:38
Anxiety and The Illusion of Control (Episode 116)
What If I Want To Control My Anxiety Holistically?In this episode, Drew and Josh examine tension between wanting to control anxiety through holistic approaches and recognizing when that desire for control becomes part of the problem itself.Key Topics Discussed:The difference between actual control and the illusion of controlHow the wellness and self-optimization industry can exploit anxiety sufferersWhy treating anxiety as a threat teaches your brain to keep the alarm system activatedThe gray area between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven fixing behaviors How to recognize when "wellness" strategies become safety behaviorsImportant Timestamps:00:00 - A listener from Switzerland asks about holistic control strategies and when it feels like she can control things02:30 - Introduction to the control illusion concept04:20 - Drew explains the critical difference between knowing and controlling5:45 - Josh's "why" question - examining motivations behind wellness pursuits8:15- How your threat response learns from your control behaviors11:45- Personal stories: Josh's magnesium bath experience and Drew's supplement journey14:30 - The meditation paradox - using mindfulness as exposure vs. control16:00- Drew's mini-rant about the billion-dollar wellness industry21:15 - Did It Anyway: A listener's birthday triumph (train, crowds, and dating)22:30- The Dr. Oz example of entertainment vs. medicine31:45- The compatibility question: Can you pursue both control and acceptance?35:00- Josh's "willful tolerance" exercise39:00 - Did It Anyway: A listener conquers their emetophobia podcast fear41:00 - First official announcement of the upcoming "Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety" bookKey TakeawaysThe episode emphasizes that while basic wellness practices may be helpful, using them as anxiety control strategies often backfires. True recovery involves learning to be with difficult feelings rather than trying to eliminate them. The hosts stress the importance of asking "why" you're pursuing any wellness intervention - is it for general health or to avoid anxiety?This episode offers practical guidance on distinguishing between healthy self-care and anxiety-driven control behaviors, helping listeners navigate the complex world of wellness marketing while staying focused on genuine recovery principles.---Disordered Roundtables are here! Think of it as "Disordered Live", a way for members of our audience to spend time with us in an intimate virtual setting (attendance is limited) to engage in real time sharing and discussion on specific anxiety disorder and recovery topics. To be notified when new Disordered Roundtable sessions are scheduled, visit our homepage and get on our mailing list.---Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew. The workshop takes a deep dive into the mechanics of worrying and ruminating, offering some helpful ways to approach the seemingly unsolvable problem of trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems.-----Want to ask us questions, share your wins, or get more information about Josh, Drew, and the Disordered podcast? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
Disordered is the podcast that delivers real, evidence-based, actionable talk about anxiety disorders and anxiety recovery in a kind, compassionate, community-oriented environment. Josh Fletcher is a qualified psychotherapist in the UK. Drew Linsalata is a therapist practicing under supervision in the US. They're both bestselling authors in the anxiety and mental health space. Josh and Drew are funny, friendly, and they have a knack for combining lived experience, formal training, and professional experience in an encouraging, inspiring, and compassionate mental health message.
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