Faithful Politics

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Could enslaved Africans become Christians, and if they did, should baptism lead to freedom? 

Katharine Gerbner, Associate Professor of History and Director of Religious Studies at the University of Minnesota, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain how religion shaped slavery and race in the Protestant Atlantic world. Gerbner’s book, Christian Slavery, examines a tension many Americans rarely consider: early Protestant slaveholders often treated Christianity as a marker of freedom, while missionaries wanted to convert enslaved people without disrupting slavery. 

That conflict helped produce what Gerbner calls “Protestant supremacy,” a religious framework that came before the legal solidification of whiteness and helped justify slavery through religious difference. The conversation moves through Quakers in Barbados, baptism, Catholic and Protestant slave systems, enslaved Christians, and theologies used to defend bondage. It is a hard but necessary look at how Christian language could be used both to seek freedom and to preserve power.

Guest Bio
Katharine Gerbner is Associate Professor of History and Director of the Religious Studies Program at the University of Minnesota. Her work examines how religion shapes, and is shaped by, race, freedom, politics, and technology. She is the author of Christian Slavery: Conversion and Race in the Protestant Atlantic World, which argues that religion was central to the development of both slavery and race in the Protestant Atlantic world, and Archival Irruptions: Constructing Religion and Criminalizing Obeah in Eighteenth-Century Jamaica. Her scholarship connects directly to this episode’s focus on Christian slavery, Protestant supremacy, baptism, enslaved Christians, and the religious arguments used to justify or challenge slavery.

Book Mentioned
Christian Slavery: Conversion and Race in the Protestant Atlantic World by Katharine Gerbner
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780812224368

Relevant Links & Resources
Katharine Gerbner Faculty Profile
URL: https://cla.umn.edu/about/directory/profile/kgerbner
Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091
Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/
Support the show
Keep the conversation going.
Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?
Visit our website:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Browse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore
Support the show and help us keep these conversations going:
patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPolitics
Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com
Contact the hosts:
Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.com
Will Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.com
Follow Faithful Politics:
Instagram: faithful_politics
Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
How did white Southern evangelicals use the Bible to defend segregation after slavery ended?

J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins, Dean of the John Wesley Honors College and Professor of Honors Humanities and History at Indiana Wesleyan University, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to explain the theological arguments behind Jim Crow Christianity. Hawkins, author of The Bible Told Them So, shows how white evangelicals read stories like Babel, Levitical separation laws, Acts 17, and Revelation as evidence that God intended racial separation. 

The conversation moves through the Civil War as a theological crisis, Brown v. Board of Education, Christian colleges, Bob Jones University, local church resistance, and the rise of “colorblindness” as a religious argument against integration. This episode matters because it shows that segregation was not defended only through politics or culture. For many Christians, it was defended as biblical truth, which should make today’s believers more humble about certainty.

Guest Bio
J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins is Dean of the John Wesley Honors College and Professor of Honors Humanities and History at Indiana Wesleyan University. He is the author of The Bible Told Them So: How Southern Evangelicals Fought to Preserve White Supremacy, published by Oxford University Press in 2021, and co-editor of Christians and the Color Line: Race and Religion after Divided by Faith. His work focuses on religion, race, white evangelicalism, segregation, and the civil rights era, making him a strong guide for understanding how theology shaped resistance to racial equality in American life.

Book Mentioned
The Bible Told Them So: How Southern Evangelicals Fought to Preserve White Supremacy by J. Russell Hawkins
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780197571064

Relevant Links & Resources
J. Russell “Rusty” Hawkins Faculty Profile
URL: https://www.indwes.edu/academics/faculty/profiles/rusty-hawkins
Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091
Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/
Support the show
Keep the conversation going.
Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?
Visit our website:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Browse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore
Support the show and help us keep these conversations going:
patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPolitics
Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com
Contact the hosts:
Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.com
Will Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.com
Follow Faithful Politics:
Instagram: faithful_politics
Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
What happens when Christianity becomes a tool for defending racial hierarchy? 

Robert P. Jones, founder and president of PRRI and author of White Too Long, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy, and the forthcoming Backslide, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to examine how white Christianity shaped slavery, segregation, public memory, and American democracy. Jones traces the story through his own Southern Baptist family history, the denominational splits over slavery, the religious defense of the Confederacy, lynching, the Lost Cause, segregation academies, and the long refusal of many white Christians to fully repent of white supremacy. 

The conversation also looks at why terms like “white Christian” and “white evangelical” are uncomfortable but necessary, and how racial identity still shapes religious and political behavior. This episode asks a hard question: if Christians once used the Bible to justify slavery and Jim Crow, what are Christians being asked to confront now?

Guest Bio
Robert P. Jones, PhD, is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute, known as PRRI, and a New York Times bestselling author. His work examines the intersection of religion, race, politics, democracy, and American identity. He is the author of The End of White Christian America, White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future, and the forthcoming Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy. His research and writing connect directly to this episode’s focus on white Christianity, slavery, segregation, Christian nationalism, public memory, and the future of democracy.

Book Mentioned
Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation After the Christian Turn Against Democracy by Robert P. Jones
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/56272/9781250431134

The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy  by Robert P. Jones
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9781668009529

Relevant Links & Resources
PRRI - Robert P. Jones
URL: https://prri.org/staff/robert-p-jones-ph-d/
Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091
Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/
Support the show
Keep the conversation going.
Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?
Visit our website:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Browse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore
Support the show and help us keep these conversations going:
patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPolitics
Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com
Contact the hosts:
Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.com
Will Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.com
Follow Faithful Politics:
Instagram: faithful_politics
Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Was America founded as a Christian nation, or has that story been repeated so often that it feels true? 

Warren Throckmorton, retired professor of psychology and author of The Christian Past That Wasn’t and co-author of Getting Jefferson Right, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to test popular founding myths against primary sources. Throckmorton walks through claims about the Constitution, religious tests, Benjamin Franklin’s prayer motion, Thomas Jefferson, the Danbury Baptists, the Cape Henry prayer, the 1774 Continental Congress prayer, and David Barton’s influence on modern Christian nationalist history. 

He argues that many Christian nation claims depend on selective quotation, invented stories, or ignoring the actual records of the Constitutional Convention. The conversation also explores why these myths are emotionally powerful. Fear, identity, and power can make bad history feel comforting, especially when people believe their faith or country is being taken away.

Guest Bio
Warren Throckmorton, PhD, is a writer, researcher, and retired professor of psychology at Grove City College. His work examines Christian nationalism, American religious history, psychology, and the misuse of historical claims in public life. He is the author of The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History and co-author, with Michael Coulter, of Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson. In this conversation, Throckmorton brings together historical fact-checking and psychological insight to explain why myths about America’s Christian founding remain powerful, why primary sources matter, and why separation of church and state protects religious freedom

Book Mentioned
The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History by Warren Throckmorton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889835820

Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson by Michael Coulter and Warren Throckmorton
Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798990900622

Relevant Links & Resources
The Throckmorton Initiative
URL: https://warrenthrockmorton.substack.com/
Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091
Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/
Support the show
Keep the conversation going.
Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?
Visit our website:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Browse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore
Support the show and help us keep these conversations going:
patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPolitics
Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com
Contact the hosts:
Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.com
Will Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.com
Follow Faithful Politics:
Instagram: faithful_politics
Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Was America founded as a Christian nation, or is that question usually about today’s politics more than the eighteenth century? 

John Fea, historian of early America and American religion, joins Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram to slow the conversation down. Fea explains why many Americans historically believed they lived in a Christian nation, while also showing why that does not settle what the founders intended. 

The discussion moves through state constitutions, religious tests, the First Amendment, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, the Constitutional Convention, anti-Federalist objections, and the difference between religious freedom and religious toleration. Fea argues that Christianity clearly mattered in the founding era, but the federal Constitution did not create a Christian republic. The episode also asks what America’s 250th should mean if we want better history, better citizenship, and a more honest public conversation about faith and democracy.

Guest Bio
John Fea, PhD, is a historian of early America, American religion, and the founding era. He is Senior Fellow at the Lumen Center for the Study of Christianity and Culture in Madison, Wisconsin, and taught U.S. history at Messiah University for more than two decades. He is the author or editor of several books, including Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?, Why Study History?, Believe Me: The Evangelical Road to Donald Trump, and the forthcoming In God We Trust: Was America Founded as a Christian Nation? His work helps listeners think historically about the founders, religious liberty, the Constitution, Christian nationalism, and the difference between using the past responsibly and using it for present-day political agendas.

Book Mentioned
In God We Trust: Was America Founded as a Christian Nation? by John Fea
Publisher: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780664269579
Support Sarah Stankorb’s work and preorder Damned If She Does: Why Women Quit Church and What It Means for the Future of Religion, Releases September 15, 2026.  Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9798889837091
Website: https://www.sarahstankorb.com/
Support the show
Keep the conversation going.
Want to learn more about Faithful Politics, suggest a future guest, or connect with us directly?
Visit our website:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com
Browse our bookstore, featuring books from many of our guests:
faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/bookstore
Support the show and help us keep these conversations going:
patreon.com/cw/FaithfulPolitics
Subscribe for behind-the-scenes content, reflections, and updates:
faithfulpolitics.substack.com
Contact the hosts:
Josh Burtram, Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpolitics.com
Will Wright, Political Host: Will@faithfulpolitics.com
Follow Faithful Politics:
Instagram: faithful_politics
Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast