The Edge Podcast

Sudo is the Project Lead and Zaki Manian is Head of Engineering at Sovright, which builds critical infrastructure for Zcash.
Just a few years ago, Zcash was almost dead. The treasury was tight, the team was shrinking, and the wallet was nearly unusable. Now the price is up 30x-40x since 2024, Bitcoiners are buying, and the team says they're just getting started.
In this episode, Zaki and Sudo walk through the full comeback story including the breakthrough with better wallets like Zodl, the unlock for ZEC DeFi with NEAR intents, the existential Orchard pool bug this year, quantum safety, and why they believe now is like Bitcoin in 2016.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

♾️ INFINIT | Institutional-grade trading vaults, built onchain

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

💰 SAFFRON FINANCE | A fixed yield layer built on Uniswap

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:46 - Zaki and Sudo’s background
7:04 - What drew Zaki and Sudo to Zcash full time
12:52 - What triggered the price run for ZEC
19:02 - Two phases of Zcash’s redemption arc
22:04 - Why Zcash is special vs other blockchains
25:10 - What the Tor/IP privacy toggle in Zodl does
29:40 - How to buy ZEC privately
32:55 - The Orchard pool vulnerability explained
43:09 - Would shielded ZEC in Zodl be safe in a PQ-world?
45:19 - Could more minted ZEC be hiding in the Orchard pool?
48:17 - The ecosystem map for Zcash
51:32 - Cypherpunk’s role (CYPH) and profitability of mining ZEC
54:50 - Proof of work vs proof of stake debate in Zcash
57:09 - How Zcash governance actually works
1:03:54 - What is Sovright building for Zcash?
1:08:37 - What DeFi might be possible for Zcash in the future?
1:13:57 - Why Zcash is the "middle thing" between Bitcoin and experimental chains
1:17:03 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Sovright website: https://sovright.com/
► Zodl wallet website:https://zodl.com/
► Sovright on X: https://x.com/sovright_
► Sudo on X: https://x.com/sudo_ml
► Zaki on X: https://x.com/zmanian
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Alan is a privacy researcher and long-time contributor to Railgun.
Every DeFi transaction you make is fully public. But Railgun is building the incognito mode for Ethereum. How does it actually work, and how does it compare to Zcash? Can we really access private DeFi with any shielded asset on Ethereum? What we learned will surprise you.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:55 - Why privacy matters
4:18 - What is Railgun?
5:50 - How to do a private swap on Ethereum with Railgun
9:42 - Railgun is like a privacy safe, but not a mixer
12:47 - Common uses of Railgun
16:50 - Privacy limitations: the privacy set problem explained
20:00 - Is Railgun similar to an L2?
23:48 - The balancing act of unstoppable access
25:49 - Railgun vs Zcash differences explained
30:47 - Which apps can I use for private DeFi with Railgun?
33:25 - Wallet-level privacy vs application-level privacy
41:41 - Railgun’s relationship working with the Ethereum Foundation
47:43 - Will privacy become a default setting or an option?
52:16 - The RAIL token: staking, governance, and yield
54:32 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Railgun website: https://railgun.org/
► Railgun on X: https://x.com/RAILGUN_Project
► Anon Inc wallet: https://anon.inc/
► Railgun on X: https://x.com/tsu_kareta
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Kyle is an investor and now Senior Research Analyst at DefiLlama.
Fundamentals are finally winning in crypto. But which sectors, which tokens, and why now?
In this episode of The Thesis, Kyle walks through his complete framework for investing this cycle, including his highest conviction bets such as Venice (VVV). He also shares his take on DATs, inference capital markets, and why liquid investors are more spoiled for choice right now than at any point in the last four years.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:22 - Background at DeFiance Capital
4:57 - Moving from memes to fundamentals
11:53 - Why memecoins eventually led people back to fundamentals
22:19 - The StablecoinX Ethena DAT trade, on NASDAQ
25:04 - Why altcoin DATs are more interesting than MicroStrategy
27:29 - DeFi yield for public markets
30:53 - When investing, the founder is all that matters
38:30 - Investing in inference capital markets
44:50 - Why Venice (VVV) is the cleanest long on inference demand
50:13 - Kyle’s degen bet on AI inference with Orbio
53:21 - Ranking Kyle’s investments by sector
1:02:44 - Up-and-coming tokens according to Kyle
1:05:13 - Kyle’s thoughts on October and is market bottom in?
1:10:45 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Kyle on X: https://x.com/zeroxkyle
► DefiLlama Research website: https://defillama.com/research
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Lito is the Head of Growth at Ethena Pay.
Is it time to buy ENA? What is Ethena Pay and how does it compete as a DeFi neobank? What is the equity basis trade and why does it matter for USDe yield? What just happened with early ENA investor buyouts and VC unlocks?
Reputable DeFi investor and builder Lito, now leading growth at Ethena Pay, answers all this and more about why Ethena is thriving in its second bull run and why it's so well positioned to challenge Circle and Tether's dominance in the stablecoin market.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏦 AXIS | The Origin Vault launched on Ethereum

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:33 - Lito’s background in DeFi
10:45 - What is Ethena Pay?
14:14 - Ethena Pay’s edge as a neobank and stablecoin issuer
19:45 - The mobile app breakthrough for DeFi
25:05 - Competing in the DeFi neobank sector
29:41 - What is Ethena’s new equity basis trade?
34:18 - What other strategies underpin sUSDe yield?
36:56 - ENA token cleanup: buyouts, equity, buybacks, unlocks
40:23 - StablecoinX, the ENA DAT
42:47 - What’s next at Ethena?
45:23 - Ethena Pay's key features and expected launch in US
50:26 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Ethena Pay website: https://pay.ethena.fi/
► Ethena Pay on X: https://x.com/ethenapay
► Lito on X: https://x.com/litocoen
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic hold ENA.

Chris Kim is the CoFounder and CEO of Axis.
Most of the volume happening in crypto still isn't visible onchain. It's a growing volume from fintechs, neobanks, CEXs, and remittance platforms bridging services between stablecoins, fiat, and tokenized assets behind the scenes, working with OTC desks for liquidity they can't source on their own.
In this DeFi Frontier episode, Chris explains how Axis Prime is building the "balance sheet as a service" layer that powers these conversions, similar to Citadel Securities for the tokenized era. He explains how DeFi capital formation through USDx feeds Axis Prime's institutional arbitrage strategies, why the yield is real and where it comes from, and why this new wave of tokenization promises a much larger TAM for years to come.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🟠 APYX | The first dividend-backed stablecoin (DBS)

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:33 - From trading commodities to cryptoasset arbitrage
5:37 - What is Axis Prime?
6:30 - Why do neobanks and fintechs need Axis Prime?
8:39 - Balance sheet as a service
10:18 - Betting on neobanks and fintech adopting stablecoins
13:40 - Opportunity to serve fiat x crypto conversions
16:14 - Axis’s first six-figure OTC trade for a leading CEX
17:25 - Why Axis Prime benefits from the Origin Vault and sUSDx
19:36 - USDx, sUSDx, and the Origin Vault
21:07 - Axis yields over last 30 days
22:55 - Where does sUSDx yield come from?
23:52 - Global onchain capital formation + service to licensed fintechs
24:47 - Challenge of trust + transparency with actively managed yield
26:34 - How do you earn the trust of DeFi lenders?
29:32 - Has the market bottomed and bull run begun?
31:08 - Could Axis earn from the Robinhood mania?
34:04 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Axis website: https://axis.to/
► Axis Prime website: https://axis.to/prime
► Axis on X: https://x.com/AxisFDN
► Chris Kim on X: https://x.com/bidorder
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Axis is a sponsor of The Edge Podcast.