The Edge Podcast

Chaitanya Jain (CJ) works on the Bitcoin team at Strategy.
Most people know Strategy for its outspoken BTC bull CEO Michael Saylor and second, for buying billions in BTC, but more of you ought to learn about the financial instruments they've engineered, backed by BTC as digital capital that appreciates over time.
In this episode, CJ breaks down how Strategy’s flagship STRC works, a perpetual preferred stock with a stable $100 price and 11.5% annual yield paid monthly in tax-deferred cash dividends. We dive into the ambitious plans at Strategy to target a $300 trillion fixed income market with STRC and how that could impact the price of BTC long term. We also dive into how DeFi teams are already tokenizing STRC to bring it onchain.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets

🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:46 - CJ’s background and role at Strategy
7:23 - What Strategy actually does with Bitcoin
10:40 - Why Strategy chose to offer perpetual preferred equity
14:58 - Which Strategy instrument is most senior?
16:44 - How AI helped design Strategy instruments
19:18 - What is STRC? Stable price, 11.5% yield, monthly dividends
23:23 - Where does STRC yield actually come from?
26:14 - ATM program for raising capital to buy more BTC
29:21 - How does STRC enable Strategy to accumulate BTC in the bear
36:49 - STRC could serve $300T fixed income market + the impact on BTC
41:48 - Difference between MSTR vs STRC investors
44:36 - Who is buying STRC right now?
47:04 - Teams tokenizing STRC for DeFi
51:41 - What are the real risks for STRC?
55:00 - Would Strategy ever sell BTC?
57:50 - Why STRC is Strategy’s “iPhone moment”
1:01:55 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Strategy website: https://strategy.com/
► Strategy on X: https://x.com/strategy
► CJ on X: https://x.com/cj_bitcoin
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic both have BTC exposure.

Matthew Fisher is CEO of Katana.
Many L2s have launched, hoping the apps show up. Katana is taking a different approach, building apps itself and designing the economic engine from day one to make this all possible.
In this episode, Matthew breaks down how vaultbridge assets like vbETH and vbUSDT redirect real yield from Ethereum Mainnet to active DeFi participants on Katana, why they acquired the team behind IDEX to launch Katana Perps, and their roadmap to onboard major liquidity from CEXs like OKX and fintechs like Revolut who can route liquidity through Katana for yield.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets

🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:04- Matthew’s background in DeFi
6:24 - Katana’s origin story
10:25 - vbTokens and why yield goes to DeFi participants, not holders
12:00 - How the vaultbridge actually works with Morpho on Ethereum
17:38 - Vitalik’s L2 comments and Ethereum alignment
21:50 - How Katana can win over users as a DeFi hub
25:12 - IDEX acquisition and Katana Perps launch
28:06 - 5 revenue-generating businesses for one network
30:55 - Built for both retail and institutions
32:51 - ve(3,3) flywheel at the network level on Katana
44:35 - KAT vs vKAT vs avKAT
48:08 - OKX Earn and Binance programs powered by Katana
52:29 - Katana’s endgame to tap into fintech liquidity
54:32 - Why Katana is strategically aligned with Polygon
59:20 - What Matthew's most excited for in 6-12 months
1:01:26 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Katana website: https://katana.network/
► Katana on X: https://x.com/katana
► Katana Perps website: https://perps.katana.network/
► Katana Perps on X: https://x.com/katanaperps
► Matthew on X: https://x.com/mfisher10x
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad earned ~$500 of KAT in the airdrop and voluntarily staked it as avKAT in a demo edited into the pod. Katana has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not accept paid guest slots. We believe Katana has an interesting story given its use of vbAssets and ve(3,3) mechanics at the network level.

Nick Forster is CoFounder and CEO of Derive.
Every year since 2021, we've said onchain options would be huge, but it's never played out, until now. Derive has captured 90-95% of onchain options volume while competitors all died or pivoted to perps. The inflection point has arrived.
In this episode, Nick explains why he stayed the course building the hardest product in DeFi, how Yieldmageddon is bullish for the growth of options, and why institutional funds are now turning to onchain options for yield generation. The thesis was right. The timing was just early. And the network effects now make Derive's moat nearly impossible to replicate.
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:27 - Why Nick bet on onchain options in 2021
4:10 - Derive is the largest onchain options exchange
5:28 - Building “the infinite payoff factory”
11:59 - Why not pivot to perps when everyone else did
14:00 - The inflection point: What changed in the last year
16:37 - How RFQ (request for quote) works for institutional size
18:04 - Yieldmageddon, the end of the basis trade and TVL deals
22:19 - Vaults and structured products being built on Derive
24:17 - Is there an LP pool-style product being built for Derive?
25:17 - From Lyra's AMM to Derive's CLOB
28:20 - What options markets are live today?
29:09 - Which networks Derive supports via its appchain
30:26 - HYPE options driving new growth
31:36 - What if Hyperliquid launched options?
35:53 - Why options markets have stronger network effects
39:17 - Will Derive support RWA options markets?
44:14 - Who trades on Derive?
46:13 - Growth charts: From 0.15% to significant market share
48:43 - Why options are countercyclical
51:09 - DRV token: All value flows through the token
55:08 - The story behind Synthetix’s acquisition proposal
57:43 - How big can Derive grow in options trading?
1:00:27 - What's next?
1:02:03 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Derive website: https://derive.xyz/
► Derive on X: https://x.com/derivexyz
► Nick on X: https://x.com/itseneff
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
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DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Arpan Gautam is the Founder of Noon.
After years at McKinsey and Goldman, Arpan was led to build institutional-grade yield products in DeFi. Noon now delivers one of the highest performing stablecoin yields (9% APY the last 30 days) while DeFi's biggest competitors sit at 4-6%.
In this episode, we cover:
+ How Noon's multi-strategy yield engine combines DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi to outperform competitors
+ Why private credit, leverage looping, and institutional access remove the gatekeepers on high-yield products
+ What institutions actually want: yield, infrastructure, and risk management
+ Noon's newly launched tBTC yield vaults
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Arpan’s background
3:58 - Why choose to build in DeFi
7:58 - What institutions want: Yield, infrastructure, and risk management
14:08 - Retail vs. institutional: Navigating the changing DeFi landscape
18:05 - What is Noon? “The highest, safest stablecoin yield”
23:57 - Evolving beyond self-reported transparency dashboards
27:29 - Noon's multi-strategy yield engine: DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi
32:53 - How Noon achieves 9%+ yields: Removing gatekeepers and accessing institutional products
36:44 - Private credit exposure and why the risk is acceptable for Noon
41:31 - New Noon tBTC yields and strategies
44:41 - NOON token launch: transferability, staking, and LP vault
50:02 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Noon website: https://noon.capital/
► Noon on X: https://x.com/noon_capital
► Arpan on X: https://x.com/ag_noon
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Noon has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not do paid guest slots. We believe Noon has a compelling story to spotlight given their standout yield products.

Felipe Montealegre is the Founder and CIO of Theia.
A liquid crypto investment fund explains why they believe the four-year token bear market is coming to an end and how they're deploying capital. Felipe explains why his team concluded 99% of crypto tokens, excluding a few SoV tokens, should be valued on discounted cash flows and how that view kept them out of certain overvalued L1s and L2s. Plus, more on positioning for what Felipe calls "the best opportunities in four years!"
In this episode, we cover:
+ Why the bear market is ending: reasonable valuations, tokenholder rights, and revenue growth
+ Understanding Edge vs. Brier scores: why being contrarian and right beats just being right
+ The real bottleneck for RWAs: the need for financially sophisticated underwriters, not more engineers
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💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS
🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults

🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets

🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term

🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield

🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification

⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield

👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle

🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale

⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined

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⏱️ TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
2:00 - Who is Theia?
4:02 - AI tools accelerating research
10:37 - How Felipe’s team applies mental models to investing
18:46 - The 4-year token bear market and why it was necessary
24:15 - Tokenholder rights: What they are and why they matter
28:37 - Thoughts on Across token buyout
32:08 - Signs the token bear market is ending
35:23 - Do you believe in the four-year cycle?
39:19 - What is MetaDAO and futarchy?
49:56 - What Theia looks for in liquid token investments
56:18 - "Bear markets are where you make all your money"
58:12 - Making the case to invest in high integrity founders
1:01:14 - Real RWAs vs. narrative RWAs
1:04:40 - The real RWA bottleneck: Why we need underwriters, not engineers
1:06:35 - The investment manager of the future
1:11:28 - Why major VCs are pivoting away from crypto
1:16:57 - Brier vs Edge: Why being contrarian and right beats being right
1:21:25 - How to find edge when DeFi is full of duopolies
1:26:35 - Closing
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🔗 GUEST LINKS
► Theia and Felipe on X: https://x.com/TheiaResearch
► Theia Mental Models: https://www.latticeworkofmentalmodels.com/
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🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER
► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz
► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod
► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify
► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod
► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad
► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap
► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/
------
DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.